Adding Ashtanga to current practice

[lotus flower]

Anyone can advise on how i could start with Ashtanga. I have been practicing Hatha so far and want to include one or two basic Ashtanga postures in them.
Thanks

[sarahy]

i practice ashtanga, i am curious as to why you want to include 'ashtanga' postures in your hatha practice? all the asanas in the ashtanga sequence are 'hatha' postures, it is the sequence, the vinyasa and the breath (among other things) that distinguish 'ashtanga' from 'hatha'.

if you are meaning to begin ashtanga yoga (the sequence, not the 8-fold path) then i would recommend a book or dvd to get you started, or perhaps ask your teacher.

sarah

[lotus flower]

Ok, I thought that Ashtanga is more advanced and more complicated (or is it Advanced Hatha). I am a bit confused. I have seen most of the postures are not easy. I wonder how long it takes to get them perfect.

I would like to know how long you've been practicing it and what is the sequence and the 8 fold path! Perhaps inspiring links would be helpful at the moment. Thxxx.

[xela]

I don't know if you're male or female, but I started my ashtanga practice with a book called "Ashtanga Yoga for Women." You can buy it from Patabhi Jois' website or on amazon or Borders.

Is there a studio in your area that teaches it? I know down here (except in Miami) it's not really an ashtanga market, so I had to teach myself.

[lotus flower]

Thanx Xela, the book would be more helpful as i could not find any teacher in my area.

[sarahy]

Originally Posted by lotus flower

I wonder how long it takes to get them perfect.

no pose is perfect, every pose is perfect.

in january, i took about 4-6 beginner classes for ashtanga and then learned the rest on my own with info i got from the web. i've now just completed a 2-month yoga teacher training for ashtanga yoga (here in south africa). though i've invested almost a full year into ashtanga practice, it is far from perfect so it provides me with something to work on every day !

how long have you been practicing yoga?

david swenson has various dvds and books. you can also search amazon.com under the names richard freeman, john c. scott, and of course Sri K. Pattabhi Jois among others. though books and dvds can certainly get you on your way it really helps to have a teacher every so often to make sure you're on track.

in learning the primary series, i think you will find the poses themselves are not the difficult part, the challenge is to maintain ujjayi breathing and bandas throughout the practice and continuing the vinyasas (breath-led transitions between poses) for the whole practice. it get's much easier over time as strength, focus and familiarity develop.

[xela]

Originally Posted by lotus flower

Thanx Xela, the book would be more helpful as i could not find any teacher in my area.

Well, I highly recommend my book....even if you are a male.

[lotus flower]

i'm happily married F by the way to clear any confusion.lol

[xela]

Well...there ya go! The book is perfect.

[Nichole]

Xela,
Do you think that this book would be good for me to reference when working with clients who do Jois' Ashtanga practice? I already reference David Swenson's, Ashtanga Yoga: The Practice Manual: An Illustrated Guide to Personal Practice (Spiral-bound) and I like this book quite a bit. In addition to Swenson's good work, having it spiral bound means that it lies flat and stays open which is great when I am on the floor.

Most of my asana teachers, no I believe all of my teachers have their training and practices solely rooted in Iyengar's work. My personal practice has included only a few classes at Richard Freeman's Yoga Workshop and this hasn't given me enough of an understanding to work therapeutically with students of Jois' Ashtanga. Boiled down, I need to good understand of what someone is attempting to do when they feel pain or have too little/too much range of motion, etc. It is sometimes not enough to make a lasting change if I only see what they are doing and we correct only for that.

I would appreciate your opinion on this. Thanks for your help and wisdom!

Originally Posted by xela

I don't know if you're male or female, but I started my ashtanga practice with a book called "Ashtanga Yoga for Women." You can buy it from Patabhi Jois' website or on amazon or Borders.

[sarahy]

Hi Nicole,

i just picked up michael sweeney's book Yoga As It Is which i just think is fantastic. the one thing about ashtangi's though- they're short and to the point. jois's theory (as i understand it) is 99% practice 1% theory and that's what i've found ashtangi's to be the most preoccupied with: practice practice practice! as i said i just finished a yoga teacher training and we were required to practice through our injuries (we had a very good teacher though who was focused on proper alignment). i've heard the primary series is all about getting smaller and smaller and smaller and the intermediate series is all out getting out and big! so the nice back strengthening postures (like locust and bow) don't show up until much later .

the most recurring injuries we had in my class (made up of 5 hathis and 5 ashtangis) were sacro-illiac injuries, lower back, and knees (particularly in the ashtangis). these usually became prevalent when the ashtangis participated in the hatha sequence (a shivananda based sequence). i think mostly because all spinal twists in ashtanga are protected by the bind around the leg and because the hatha sun salutations have the standing backward bend. also in the forward bends we were not engaging bandas early enough on in the course. also knee injuries from practicing the lotus positions without having enough opening of the hips (again, early on, but they stay with you throughout the course!). i also had some serious shoulder fatigue for a few weeks before the strength developed.

so michael sweeney's book is really great because it has a nice theory section and then pictures of the first 3 series. and it's also spiral bound so it's nice to lay out in front of you for reference. yoga mala by jois is also very concise. it may not help you with alignment so much as just knowing where the practice as a whole is going.

i'm not sure if that helps or if it's what you're looking for.

sarah

[xela]

I think the book is great. It tells you everything that the pose is supposed to stimulate and improve and everything that it's not good for. It's not spiral bound, so it's hard to keep on the floor...I know since I needed it when I was first learning the sequence.

Sarah is so right about ashtangi's and our practice. A little pain is never a bad thing in our eyes! lol That's how you get better.

I struggled with knee pain in the beginning...lower back and now my shoulder, but that's from my vinyasa practice.

[Nichole]

Sarah and Xela,
My thanks to you both for your recommendations on authors and books. I also appreciate you sharing some perspective on Ashtanga practice. It is very difficult for me to understand the idea of that you are being encouraged to practice through injuries and pain. It is so profoundly different from all of my training and my teachers' personal philosophies. I consider it my very good fortune that all of my teachers have been practicing, as well as training Yoga teachers and therapists, for 25+ years and perhaps this why is they use such care. Early on in those years of Yoga practice, some of my teachers injured themselves or were harmed in the classes of some of the "best" and most influential Yoga teachers in the world. One teacher told me that she was practicing next to a fellow student when their teacher, who is considered one of the world's foremost authorities of Yogasana, jumped onto her friend's back in an effort to bring attention to this area. He caused unimaginable and lasting damage to this student's sacrum. It may be from witnessing teachers like this, or from the wisdom of age and experience that they firmly promote an attitude of no harm to their own students now.

I do appreciate the insight you offered.
Kind wishes,

[Pandara]

Dear All,

I must say after reading this thread that I am a bit concerned also about the pain thing. Perhaps I am a big sissy, (it's a fact that men have lower pain levels than women) but I have always felt that pain should be avoided in yoga as it keeps you body conscious. On the other hand I associate pain with stress and anxiety and fear, isn't these the things we want to get away from? Creating a body free from illness and disease (read also pain) has always been one of the goals of yoga for me, or am I misguided?

Sometimes my muscles might be a bit stiff and tender after a heavy week of yoga, but never to the extend that it is painful. Perhaps pain might be the extreme and you ladies might actually just mean a little discomfort?

Perhaps some clarification could help here?

[sarahy]

i think that there is a difference between stretch pain and injury pain. and that if we back off too soon we miss the experience that our body is having and what it is trying to tell us. if we work through the pain we learn where we are not using our muscles (essentially play around the pain until we figure out how to ease it). in addition, as a new yoga teacher i've now been through that pain, i understand it and when a student indicates pain i can ask enough questions about the quality of the pain to discover what the source is (i hope ). pain is also sometimes caused by inattention, one can hurt them selves by not being in their space during a practice. one also can feel great during practice and the next day have something they never even felt before (i recieved a facet joint injury from laying on a foam yoga block). so i guess i don't think one should throw out 'pain' when it comes to exploring yogasana.

that being said, i'm very lucky to have had instructors that did teach proper alignment in my past or jumping into ashtanga would have been much more painful. i have to say the original injuries i had early on in my course are gone now and the areas are now incredibly strong, i'm also much more aware of where my body is and what will cause an injury to recur. i guess i see pain as an opportunity for exploration and investigation. it's neither good nor bad, just possible.

[Prascina]

Sorry to read the confusion on ashtanga yoga.Ashtanga is the eight fold path of yogic practice and asanas is the third step .The style of asanas can be dynamic or meditative depending on the personality of the practioner.

[sarahy]

yes, ashtanga is the 8-fold path. 'ashtanga vinyasa' is a series of postures led by the breath that makes up a type or style of yoga. it is called ashtanga for short.

sarah

[Prascina]

style of asanas to be more precise.