Ahimsa - Nonviolence - Vegetarianism - Veganism

[Nichole]

Originally Posted by Hubert

As I expereinced and imagine, regarding diet, there are the succesive phases of ignorant innocence, selfish care, knowledgable but overdone attention with it's oscillations, than the resulting balance of changed, better habits what culminate in a wise ignorance regarding food.

Hubert, I am unclear on what you are saying, but would like to be. Would you offer more or help me understand by saying this in another way?

Thank you friend,

[Hubert]

It must be one of two things: my bad english, or the inaccesibility of the incredible wisdom my words contain. But knowing myself, it is probably the first.

Joking aside:

I have been ignorant toward food as I was a kid, then in college I became a vegetarian, been one for six years but that was just having a meatless diet, not necessarily a healthy one, than as I grew more knowlegable, I managed (I must give thanks here for the wonderful wife I have) to build a balanced life, with habits customary to my country, but having excesses in sugar, and processed foods, I grew overweight, than it followed the "nutritionist" wiseguy phase when I radically changed my eating habits, regardless my social environment, became lean and mean, (ascension from tamas to rajas) emotionally and mentally unprepared for this change, got into a crysis in my personal life, led to yoga again, and practicant by force of necessity, going through thought systems, philosophies, found that no such thing really can give any real safety, while all the time I was preserving my precious ego, taking good care of myself. All the time the focal point was me. I am irrelevant, now I know it, at least anything what comes after I am. So being a husband, male, middle aged, caucazian, hungarian, architect, vata, hot tempered, all of these are just circumstancial things, all part of my karma, and there only so I can grow into something I do not know yet, but that something is more important, more real, more alive than all the others. Eating, diet is just one of the many things I need to take care of, to serve that higher purpose. What is it ? To serve the spirit and the divine plan, as far as I am able. What is that plan ? I do not know. But in all these little things, there is great room for improvement. And the more I strive, the more I realize how hard it is, the more strenght I gain, the greeater the temptation to use it for the wrong reasons.

Diet and health is only relevant if it fits and serves ones's karma. Being depressed, ill, and miserable is part of our karma, too. That is when we are tried to show our bests, instead of just fooling around. That is when the way beacomes essential, like air.

The talk we talk, the thoughts we think, those little idiosinchronic things of our everyday actions make us more dirty than the food we use.
But diet is important ... and should be part of our practice. Yet, the physical body withers away in the end ... do not give it too much importance. Happiness is not joy, it is only realizing the truth that everything is just as it should be.

[Fin]

Originally Posted by Nichole

... as we purify them, what comes to the surface of minds and physical bodies is the pain, confusion, anger, fear, etc that was down below. It can become potently acute, but it arrives at the surface for us to finish off with conscious practice and cleansing.

Namaste,

I resonate completely with what the quote above
The debris of this conscious practice and cleansing lays a path & you just know you have to tread that path…

[Hubert]

yes... and in the end we shed only what needs to be shed. All loss is there only to make place for something better. Be it an organ, a state, an emotion, a person we've grown attached to, a body, we shed it so we can build a better, more glorious one, meet better things, have relevant expereinces. That's why the suffering, the crying, the hungry, and the thirsty are blessed, and happy, as they will be fulfilled.
Everything is, and will be allright.

Hey guys ... Nichole, Fin, and all others present.

[Fin]

Originally Posted by xela

I know that people need to do what is right for their bodies...and I have always thought of myself as someone who needed to eat meat because of my blood type, etc., but I think with slow steps and help it will be possible. I cannot live with the guilt anymore. Take Ana Forrest for example though...she is allergic to most grains and vegetables so she has to eat meat to survive. She kills her own meat...with a bow and arrow. I must commend her for taking responsiblity for what she is doing so unlike what the rest of Americans do.

Dear Xela,
You are so right, people will spend lots on taking care of their much beloved pets – but so little thought is given to the welfare of animals they eat.

I truly commend you on your views and send you my very best wishes to achieve your vegetarian diet.

On a more practical level:
Strongest animals on earth (elephants, horse, gorilla, water buffalo etc) don’t need to eat animal protein to produce it. I think it is a fallacy to maintain that animal protein is the best. A simple dish of rice & beans has all the protein that a human needs, in fact animal protein puts extra demand on the human kidneys & liver. Beside we as yogi’s already know food is not the only source of energy the very air we breath (prana) infuses energy.

Xela here are my thoughts generally on quality and type of food.
Paying attention to details such as eating food conducive to your body can help. Also I keep away from processed food, frozen food, leftovers, etc. Just don't like them. My taste buds loves very fresh and pure foods.

The possibilities of enjoying delicious vegetarian food are endless:
Consider cooked vegetables of various kind, usually 2-3 types at a time, such as broccoli, cabbage, courgettes (zucchini), carrots, corn, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, fennel (anise), mushrooms, green leafy veggies, fresh peas snap beans, etc. Cooked in my case with vata - reducing spices, unrefined salt, ccocout oil, seasame oil, or ghee, perhaps some vegetable buillon or coconut milk. Add some Almonds (skin removed) and Cashew nuts. The result is delicious. Eat this with some couscous, Basmati Rice or Whole-wheat Chapattis or Pitta Bread. If your mouth is not watering by now – it should be.
Oh & why not start with a salad, e.g. red leaf lettuce, cucumber, 1/2 avocado, celery, cilantro, parsley, basil, perhaps some bell pepper, grated carrot, roasted pumpkins seeds, a little almond milk and olive oil as dressing, adjust to take account of your body type.

For main dish consider also Kidney Beans, soaked over night then allowed to cook (or boil) in a slow cooker for a few hours (you don’t have to be there when it is doing this) then near mid-day curry them with tumeric,cloves, cinnamon, ginger, garam masal, and other Indian spices – this eaten with rice or chapattis with some lemon squeezed on it …delicious!

I can suggest many many possibilities of healthy & energizing recipe that does not take a lot of time and is delicious, let me know your Ayurvedic Body Type – I suspect you are Pitta/Vata.
Electric slow cooker is great for beans such as Kidney beans, Mung Beans, chickpea or garbanzo beans – all beans a great source of nutrients.

Hope all this helps – sorry for the disjointed response. If you want more info on food & recipes just let me know. I will post on the forum so others can also try.

Best Wishes on your new Path…
Namaste,
Love,
Fin

[Kiran]

Thanks Nicole for bringing up this subject. I've been thinking about it quite a bit lately.

I wanted to stop eating meat nine years ago (for a variety of reasons) but ended up not being able to sustain it longer than a month. I was still new to yoga and not yet in touch with myself to the degree I am today. Still, the aspect of ahimsa (along with the other yamas and niyamas) remained values and ideals I aspired to live. I ate meat far less than before but also aspired to live with satya, aparigraha, santosa, etc.

This past year, I've deepened my practice and now don't let a day pass without it. It made me more mindful of my words and actions and to think about the impact of the decisions I make every day (such as where that meal came from). Also, I found myself getting more in touch with my own body and along the way, found that I did not like how my body felt after eating meat - something just seemed wrong.

I ate meat less often and in the process, meat gave me up. Eventually realized I was eating a near-vegan diet but was feeling so great, I wanted to keep it going. Since then, I have absolutely zero cravings for meat and most dairy and feel better than I have since my 20s. More importantly, I feel better spiritually since my actions are aligned with my values. At the same time, I've found that it has helped me deepen my practice in ways I never imagined possible.

My wife tells me that any anger or fear I had before seems to have faded away and that now I always seem to be in a pleasant mood. She herself now eats almost no meat and may one day decide to walk the same path (if she does, it must be her choice).

I don't go around telling people I am a vegetarian nor preech to anyone their diet choices. I just strive to live the values I subscribe to and try to spread the happieness and contentment it has given to me. We'll see one day where it all leads.

Namaste,

K


PS: Earlier someone mentioned that Ayurveda can sometimes prescribe meat to rebalance doshas, etc. I am currently taking the correspondence course from the Ayurvedic Institute and it says that "Although ayurveda prescribes meat for use when the patient is extremely debilitated, there are several reasons why meat should be avoided by the healthy." It then goes on for a page to list ayurvedic health reasons for why it should be avoided. Just wanted to pass this along.

[Hubert]

Even materialist science and nutritionist came to the conclusion that having animal proteins is questionable, even from point of view of the selfish, physical body consciousness. There is no doubt about it. It is not environment friendly, it is not healthy, it's ethic is questionable.

Personally I found that in my strive for brahmacharya, eating meat was a great hindrance.
Glad that I have given up that practice ... now I can eat meat, if needs be. For everything there is a reason, and a place in the world. Not eating meat, is good. Eating meat sometimes is also good. It depends entirely on personal karma and circumstances. Dieing of cancer is good if it turns one from a materialist sceptic to a true warrior of the spirit. Death is just a gate. Birth is just a gate. Joy and pain are just expereinces.

Love, and light, as my dear friend Neil uses to say. There is a time for being happy, there is a time for being sad. There is a time to live and there is a time to die. There is a time to enjoy, and there is a time to suffer. There is time to work, to fight, to desire, and there is a time to let go. There is a time to talk, and there is a time to remain silent.

[xela]

Thank you so much for your kind words, Nichole.

I think this time is perfect then for me because I feel very ready and I know I have the support of my partner and also my yoga family at the studio. The deepening of my practice has brought about many emotions and I often find myself "freaking out" in class. The love I feel from everyone around me helps me break down my barriers and makes me a better person, not only for myself, but for the people around me.

After speaking with a vegan coworker of mine yesterday she gave me a few suggestions of vegetarian/vegan recipes. Although I do not have direct links we can google them. Once of them is Moosewood cookbooks and The Enchanted Broccoli Forest cookbook.

Originally Posted by Nichole

Xela,
I have been watching with curiosity since I first saw you mention that you were considering vegetarianism, somewhere, not sure exactly since we are friends in a few places. Perhaps it is the many months of committed and deepen Ashtanga practice paired with happiness and the love you have in your life; I would bet on all of that
I am hoping that you will you add links and any information you find in your own search in this thread because so many people are waking up to this for themselves. Mukunda has spoken to me, in his mentoring of my practice, about resulting nadis that are purified with right practice. As we purify them, what comes to the surface of minds and physical bodies is the pain, confusion, anger, fear, etc that was down below. It can become potently acute, but it arrives at the surface for us to finish off with conscious practice and cleansing. It is the last step. I was working through something incredible this summer, and there is something similar between how your voice sounds to me here and to my own then. It is the watching for how to be different in the world now that we know that we can't go back to what we once did. lol, I just considered that maybe I won't sound similarly voiced to you, even though you are to me! I wish you all the best, as your way becomes clearer and clearer to you.

Namaste,

[xela]

Also...Fin...

How do I find out what my ayurvedic body type is?

[Kiran]

Originally Posted by xela

Also...Fin...

How do I find out what my ayurvedic body type is?

Xela,
Happy face when reading your posts.

You can determine your ayurvedic consitution by using this chart:

http://www.ayurveda.com/online%20res...nstitution.pdf

Don't be surprised if you are a hybrid of two types, its actually pretty common. The thing I've been learning is that each of the doshas are more dominant during certain times of day, and certain seasons of the year.

Namaste,

XP

[Fin]

Originally Posted by xela

Also...Fin...

How do I find out what my ayurvedic body type is?

The most accurate analysis of your Ayurvedic Body Type (Dosha) is given by an Ayurvedic practitioner using a pulse test. However a rough & ready analysis can be obtained with a Dosha Questionnaire; see the following web link for a questionnaire:

Chopra Dosha Quiz

There are many questioners available so a Goggle for "What is your Dosha", or just "Dosha" will give more sites.

Other members might know of better sites…

[xela]

Originally Posted by Kiran

Xela,
Happy face when reading your posts.

You can determine your ayurvedic consitution by using this chart:

http://www.ayurveda.com/online%20res...nstitution.pdf

Don't be surprised if you are a hybrid of two types, its actually pretty common. The thing I've been learning is that each of the doshas are more dominant during certain times of day, and certain seasons of the year.

Namaste,

XP

I have 8 for Vata, 13 for Pitta and 11 for Kapha.

I don't know what all that means though.

[xela]

Originally Posted by Fin

The most accurate analysis of your Ayurvedic Body Type (Dosha) is given by an Ayurvedic practitioner using a pulse test. However a rough & ready analysis can be obtained with a Dosha Questionnaire; see the following web link for a questionnaire:

Chopra Dosha Quiz

There are many questioners available so a Goggle for "What is your Dosha", or just "Dosha" will give more sites.

Other members might know of better sites…

Your scores are Vata: 2 Pitta: 5 Kapha: 3Based on your results, you are a PITTA: Pitta CharacteristicsMind:Sharp, intellectual, direct, precise, discerningBody:Medium build, warm, muscularSkin:Sensitive, flush, acne-proneHair:Tendency towards early graying or thinningAppetite:Strong, can eat just about anything, anytimeRoutine:Very precise and organizedTemperament:Passionate, driven, courageous, strong sex drive, good leaderConversation Style:Speaks to convey a pointShopping Style:Spends on luxury itemsStress Response:Irritable, tendency to blame others.

[Kiran]

Pitta - you are predominantly fire+water.


What I've learned so far in my Ayurvedic course is that while one dhatu (caled doshas when out of balance) may be our dominant one, it will shift to the others ate certain times of day and in certain seasons (not to mention the impact of diet). What's more, different parts of the body (based on their functions) are predominantly Vatta, Pitta, or Kapha. For example, since Pitta represents the body's principle of heat, it is concentrated in the digestive functions, the eyes, liver, spleen, skin, small intestine, and the brain. But it acts in concert with the others constantly. For example, the movement of food through the GI tract is governed by vatta, pitta regulates the secretion of digestive enzymes and fluids, while the lubricating mucus is provided by kapha.

There is not enough room here to describe all the details and dynamics but knowing your predominant dhatu is just a starting point - we should be careful in taking any actions based only on your main type. Obviously, I am far from being a qualified consultant (perhaps someday).

The real trick is to keep them all in balance but to do so, you need to work with a trained ayurvedic physician or consultant..

[xela]

Very interesting. I'm sure I'd be able to find an ayurvedic doctor (is that what they're called?) around my town. There is a very high Indian population in the town where I work.

[Kiran]

Xela,
Great! Please let us know how it goes.

[Crumpled]

On the subject of eating the flesh of animals, I go with idea, that as we possess teeth for the eating of meat, then, we must as a species eat meat. But not meat all the time. Myself, well I eat meat about once or twice a week, not because I am cutting down on meat, but I refuse to eat meat where the animal has been factory produced, just because it is a product and nothing else. I must eat free range meat, where the animal has had at least a little joy out of life. This meat being expensive, is my reason for making the consuming of it a special occaision. It being a special occaision, I taste and savour every morsel, as I am eating something special.

The other thing is, animals and insects eat meat, ourselves, we are host to many creatures that from time to time survive, by what they can get from us. Everything is part of the food chain and perhaps by being in this food chain, we are maintaining a sort of natural balance, we might not be able to comprehend the balance, but nature in it's wisdom, generally knows what it is doing.

[Kiran]

Originally Posted by Crumpled

On the subject of eating the flesh of animals, I go with idea, that as we possess teeth for the eating of meat, then, we must as a species eat meat.

The other thing is, animals and insects eat meat, ourselves, we are host to many creatures that from time to time survive, by what they can get from us. Everything is part of the food chain and perhaps by being in this food chain, we are maintaining a sort of natural balance, we might not be able to comprehend the balance, but nature in it's wisdom, generally knows what it is doing.

Forgive me but I disagree.

Actually, our teeth and GI systems are identical to other herbivores. If we were designed to eat meat, we would have long sharp teeth for tearing open and eating raw flesh plus a shorter GI system (not one which is several times the length of our own bodies. Meat eating animals don't have molars which are designed to grind up plant-based foods. Humans require tools (such as knives and forks) to eat meat but can eat vegetables with their own hands and teeth (without tools).

On the food chain idea, the difference is that humans have free will, something other animals do not have.

Peace,

Kiran

[JenW]

I absolutely agree with Kiran. Unlike meat eating animals we cannot digest raw meat. Nor do we have the instict to kill and eat the animals we see in our daily lives.
Meat eaters have much higher incidences of heart disease, cancers and obesity.
The site goveg.com has an excellent chart comparing the physical features of carnivores, omnivores and herbivores and how humans fit into this scale. See GoVeg.com // Health Issues // The Natural Human Diet // Human Physiology
It's pretty interesting and certainly adds to my conviction that we are indeed herbivores.

[Pandara]

Originally Posted by Crumpled

Everything is part of the food chain and perhaps by being in this food chain, we are maintaining a sort of natural balance, we might not be able to comprehend the balance, but nature in it's wisdom, generally knows what it is doing.

Personally I think there is very liltle balance in our food chain at the moment, the reason why we see such horrendous increases in cancers and other illnesses.

Nature's wisdom is unfortuantely overshadowed by the free will and the accompanied destructiveness of mankind at the moment, in my humble opinion, although mother nature do know better, we think we know better - supposedly that is.