At what point do you stop being a "beginner" ?

**xela** · 05-24-2007, 04:00 PM

I was "teaching" a friend last night how to do some poses and he asked when you stop being a beginner and it made me think!

Is there a set time? Is it based on progress? I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

Namaste

souljourney108 · 05-24-2007, 05:17 PM

Hi Xela,

My first thought was that this question comes from ego. Why do we need to label ourselves or things so much? I'd say to your student to just practice and do what you can ...just BE. Be present. In our culture, the conditioning is so strong to 'be something'.
As a yoga teacher, as I see it, we want to encourage people to come out of all this conditioning. This is Yoga.
If there are classes labeled as 'beginner ' or 'intermediate' I guess try them and see from experience how they feel, but as long as the person doesn't identify with being at a level of achievement.

Hope this helps
Hari Om,
Soul

InnerAthlete · 05-25-2007, 12:09 AM

So I'm in an intensive this week and may not be atop my game here. And you might ask "what is he doing on the internet the week of an intensive" and that is a very good question.

There are two issues with student levels (in which it is not so much Ego any more than anything we do is) and those two are; what do teachers teach (appropriately) and what class is best for the student's development (appropriately).

Now some places, benues, studios, this level bit is irrelevant.
And for a begginner or raw beginner to be wondering about whn they'll be intermediate I would certainly deftly deflect. There's no reason to have that conversation.

Further, the answer, or should I say "an" answer is that this would depend on the discipline. Some yoga (asana or otherwise) seem to have a blatant regard for developing a foundation in the student.

For me there are certain basic alignments and actions beginners should be developing. There are certain cautions and conccerns for a beginner. There is a certain level of body awarenss that should be cultivated in the beginner. There is a certain focus (listening) and attention (self reflection) and breathing that should be developed in the beginner. Really, should an intermediate student, generally speaking, have to be told to breathe? Sure. Yes. But not in the constant way a beginer with no breaath awareness would be.

Foundations for the student reduce injury and set the framework for deeper understandings and learning. It is not soely based on how long you've been going to a studio, though that is a factor - assuming you are being taught.

Hubert · 05-25-2007, 03:11 AM

Hey InnerAthlete. I hope you're on the intensive as "work" and not as a patient.

As about being a beginner. It is always nice to be one. A fresh start !
People often overlook the value of this time. If I could, I'd always remain a beginner.

Everythink is pink and promising when you are a beginner.

I'd say, you are not a beginner anymore when you start missing being one.

It was said that competing is not a yogi attitude. Still, there must be a way to measure progress, because ever seeing forward aspiring for more can be tiring. So it is good to stop and turn and see how far we have come.

**xela** · 05-25-2007, 08:47 AM

Thanks for the reply, guys!

souljourney108 · 05-25-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hubert

It was said that competing is not a yogi attitude. Still, there must be a way to measure progress, because ever seeing forward aspiring for more can be tiring. So it is good to stop and turn and see how far we have come.

Hi Hubert,
Yes , I agree, always looking forward is tiring and so is looking backward, in my experience. The mind has such a habit of going into the past and going into the future. What about simply be present? Including/especially yoga practice. No labeling, no thinking , just be present in the practice?

Hari Om,
Soul

InnerAthlete · 05-26-2007, 12:15 AM

Ah look how many grammatical and spelling errors in that last, tired post of mine. Can you feel the fatigue dripping from the text??

My dear Hubert, when one is in an intermediate asana/therapeutics intensive (as I am) you are both do-er and do-ee. It is lovely to have some of the therapeutics done to/for you. There is however a lot of information and I can imagine for those doing this for the first time it would be completely overwhelming.

As for progress and measurement sure there are many ways to do this but I believe the larger "way" is to examine your life rather than your pose. If your life has not changed now in your 5th year of "doing" yoga then it may beg the question "what am I doing" or "what am I doing it for". This is the way Yoga can most impact our lives. Healing the body, fine. Good. But how are you living? How are your relationships? How have you grown?

If you can do a better trikonasana, fine. But also who cares. Now if you are a more connected spouse, parent, daught/son, etcetera, this is the real work.

Kaos · 05-28-2007, 10:36 AM

No beginning, no ending. Only this moment.
Yet, even this very moment is quickly turning into the past...

**Nichole** · 07-26-2007, 08:51 PM

This is from Mukunda's book, Structural Yoga Therapy: Adapting to the Individual. He recognizes three levels in students of Yoga: beginner, regular and committed.
A Complete Classical Yoga Practice

Bless you,

Hubert · 07-27-2007, 03:59 AM

Thank, you, this is quite a read. A bit dangerous for my ego, but, I think I'll manage it. It appears that I fare better than I thought.

(Until I get to downward dog again, when I'll feel ... sooo humble ! )

05-25-2007, 12:09 AM	#3
InnerAthlete Mostly Good Egg Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Certified Purna Yoga Teacher - Seattle, WA Posts: 1,078	So I'm in an intensive this week and may not be atop my game here. And you might ask "what is he doing on the internet the week of an intensive" and that is a very good question. There are two issues with student levels (in which it is not so much Ego any more than anything we do is) and those two are; what do teachers teach (appropriately) and what class is best for the student's development (appropriately). Now some places, benues, studios, this level bit is irrelevant. And for a begginner or raw beginner to be wondering about whn they'll be intermediate I would certainly deftly deflect. There's no reason to have that conversation. Further, the answer, or should I say "an" answer is that this would depend on the discipline. Some yoga (asana or otherwise) seem to have a blatant regard for developing a foundation in the student. For me there are certain basic alignments and actions beginners should be developing. There are certain cautions and conccerns for a beginner. There is a certain level of body awarenss that should be cultivated in the beginner. There is a certain focus (listening) and attention (self reflection) and breathing that should be developed in the beginner. Really, should an intermediate student, generally speaking, have to be told to breathe? Sure. Yes. But not in the constant way a beginer with no breaath awareness would be. Foundations for the student reduce injury and set the framework for deeper understandings and learning. It is not soely based on how long you've been going to a studio, though that is a factor - assuming you are being taught. __________________ ---- http://www.yogamojodojo.com http://www.teamyoga.com http://www.innerathlete.net/forum

05-26-2007, 12:15 AM	#7
InnerAthlete Mostly Good Egg Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Certified Purna Yoga Teacher - Seattle, WA Posts: 1,078	Ah look how many grammatical and spelling errors in that last, tired post of mine. Can you feel the fatigue dripping from the text?? My dear Hubert, when one is in an intermediate asana/therapeutics intensive (as I am) you are both do-er and do-ee. It is lovely to have some of the therapeutics done to/for you. There is however a lot of information and I can imagine for those doing this for the first time it would be completely overwhelming. As for progress and measurement sure there are many ways to do this but I believe the larger "way" is to examine your life rather than your pose. If your life has not changed now in your 5th year of "doing" yoga then it may beg the question "what am I doing" or "what am I doing it for". This is the way Yoga can most impact our lives. Healing the body, fine. Good. But how are you living? How are your relationships? How have you grown? If you can do a better trikonasana, fine. But also who cares. Now if you are a more connected spouse, parent, daught/son, etcetera, this is the real work. __________________ ---- http://www.yogamojodojo.com http://www.teamyoga.com http://www.innerathlete.net/forum

07-26-2007, 08:51 PM	#9
Nichole SYT Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 816	This is from Mukunda's book, Structural Yoga Therapy: Adapting to the Individual. He recognizes three levels in students of Yoga: beginner, regular and committed. A Complete Classical Yoga Practice Bless you, __________________ Nichole Nurenberg-Miller Structural and Ayurvedic Yoga Therapist • RYT500 www.FiveKoshaYogaTherapy.com

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05-24-2007, 04:00 PM	#1
xela Forum Facilitator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 415	I was "teaching" a friend last night how to do some poses and he asked when you stop being a beginner and it made me think! Is there a set time? Is it based on progress? I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts. Namaste

05-24-2007, 05:17 PM	#2
souljourney108 catvaarimshát Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: byron bay, australia Posts: 43	Hi Xela, My first thought was that this question comes from ego. Why do we need to label ourselves or things so much? I'd say to your student to just practice and do what you can ...just BE. Be present. In our culture, the conditioning is so strong to 'be something'. As a yoga teacher, as I see it, we want to encourage people to come out of all this conditioning. This is Yoga. If there are classes labeled as 'beginner ' or 'intermediate' I guess try them and see from experience how they feel, but as long as the person doesn't identify with being at a level of achievement. Hope this helps Hari Om, Soul

05-25-2007, 03:11 AM	#4
Hubert astashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 806	Hey InnerAthlete. I hope you're on the intensive as "work" and not as a patient. As about being a beginner. It is always nice to be one. A fresh start ! People often overlook the value of this time. If I could, I'd always remain a beginner. Everythink is pink and promising when you are a beginner. I'd say, you are not a beginner anymore when you start missing being one. It was said that competing is not a yogi attitude. Still, there must be a way to measure progress, because ever seeing forward aspiring for more can be tiring. So it is good to stop and turn and see how far we have come.

05-25-2007, 08:47 AM	#5
xela Forum Facilitator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 415	Thanks for the reply, guys!

05-28-2007, 10:36 AM	#8
Kaos vimshatí Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 24	No beginning, no ending. Only this moment. Yet, even this very moment is quickly turning into the past...

07-27-2007, 03:59 AM	#10
Hubert astashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 806	Thank, you, this is quite a read. A bit dangerous for my ego, but, I think I'll manage it. It appears that I fare better than I thought. (Until I get to downward dog again, when I'll feel ... sooo humble ! )