Yoga
Yoga Forums » Yoga Discussion » General Yoga Discussion » Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)

ShriKali.org
Reply
Old 04-03-2011, 04:20 AM   #1
MindNinja
ashiití
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)

What are peoples opinions of Yoga groups that are considered Cults by Cult awareness groups, etc?

As Yoga practitioners & teachers would you recommend people to go to meetings/workshops with such groups or tell them though you do Yoga yourself what they are doing is very different and should be avoided like the plague? Should we distance ourselves from such groups as much as possible (much like a Christian Protestant or Catholic would distance themselves from a Mormon or Moonie-Unification Church), or merely say we do our thing, they do theirs and let people use their own judgement themselves if they want to get involved with them (though many intelligent people even using their own judgement aren't fully aware of what they are getting into until they are really into it).

Here are few such groups :

Brahma Kumaris (Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University / Raja Yoga)
Sahaja Yoga
Siddha Yoga (Muktananda / Gurumayi Chidvilasananda)
Self Realization Fellowship (Paramahansa Yogananda)
Himalayan Institute of Yoga Science & Philosophy
Transcendental Meditation (based on Raja Yoga)
Elan Vital (Divine Light Mission)
Dahn Yoga
etc etc

Note - not my opinion all such groups are Cults though for some of them I would say they certainly are but it is a view shared by cult awareness groups that they are indeed cults & additionally all such groups have a lot of ex-members warning you all is not what it seems and they are indeed cults [in my opinion for example Sahaja Yoga is undeniably a Cult - you are gradually indoctrinated and not told anything like the full story when you first go to meetings, arranged marriages, rituals to banish demons, if you leave you are taught bad things will befall you, unquestioned loyalty and devotion to Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, 'the cool breeze' proof of spiritual energy, Shri Mataji quote - ''Sahaja Yoga is different from other types of Yoga because it begins with self realization'', etc].

Here are just a few links that discuss the 'Cult' status of the afore mentioned groups :

Dahn Yoga - http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/...-cult-20100328
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_217382.html

Sahaja Yoga - http://www.sahajacult.com/
http://www.adishakti.org/forum/sahaj..._9-28-2004.htm
http://www.kheper.net/topics/gurus/sahaja_yoga.htm

Siddha Yoga - http://leavingsiddhayoga.net/

Brahma Kumaris - http://bkwatchers.wordpress.com/2008...maris-exposed/

Self Realization Fellowship - http://oaks.nvg.org/fila.html


I'm sure there will be different opinions here regarding which of the above deserve the label - 'Cult' and which do not, though for certain many people regard all of the above as cults - cult awareness groups , general media coverage, ex-members, etc.

Most or nearly all of these groups do little physical Yoga exercises though some do, & there are also some Yoga groups that do a lot of physical exercising that are considered cults too. Worth noting too that though Brahma Kumaris claims to be Raja Yoga ('the highest') that does not obviously entail all Raja Yoga groups are Cults also. I'm sure some people may be thinking groups like Self Realization Fellowship, a cult no way - as they are well aware who Paramahansa Yogananda is ('Autobiography of a Yogi', etc) or see groups like Brahma Kumaris as harmless - though many people that have awareness of their teachings and practices view them as dangerous and definitely Cults.

Also worth noting that some people who do normal physical Yoga (Sivananda, Bikram, Iyengar, etc) which many incorporate some spiritual teachings or a philosophy you don't have to believe in them and can just do purely physical Yoga if you wish as many do - and I'm aware of some people that do Yoga in classes physical exercises but then look to other groups such as SRF Self Realization Fellowship, Brahma Kumaris, etc for more spiritual religious awareness and teachings.
MindNinja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 05:09 AM   #2
AmirMourad
sahásra Member
 
AmirMourad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,158
It is important to understand what one means by "cult". The very word itsself is derived from the same word as "culture". Nor is a "cult" something which is simply a minority of people who happen to be different in some way or another from the majority. It is in fact something which is pervaded throughout the whole humanity - all of the different religions, nations, belief systems, traditions, political organizations in all their divisions - conservatives, democrats, liberal parties, communists, socialists, all are cults. Even Christianity and Buddhism, which have managed to spread themselves all over the Earth as major religions - they were by all standards cults. Jesus Christ was declaring himself the long awaited messiah, was condemned by the society as a dangerous man, and had only a small group of followers who were rebellious against the social standards of the time. The sangha that had grown around Gautama Buddha can also be called a cult - it is important to understand that at his time Gautama Buddha's community was just a new thing on the scene. And many people opposed him because he was bringing in ideas which were contrary to their traditions - all of the other traditions were emphasizing the existence of a God, of a soul, of an Atman, and what was a central part of Gautama's teaching was that there is no-self that is to be found anywhere within one's being, one's being is absolutely empty. And the existence of God is more or less irrelevant - what is far greater significance is one's direct living experience from moment to moment. Part of his rebellion was that he was not dependent upon any scripture or tradition. That is why, rather than being versed as a Brahmin in Sanskrit language, he simply spoke Pali - a language which was common amongst the masses, which was not available for just a reserved few. And as his community was growing more and more popular, other traditions gradually came to interpret his being there as a threat. Even Gautama's own cousin, Devadatta, tried to assasinate him many times. Unlike Jesus Christ, Gautama was not crucified although those who were against him would have been more than happy to crucify him. Christianity was simply a cult of Judaism in the beginning, and what we call "Buddhism" in the beginning was not even a sect of any religion - it was an entirely new phenomenon. Gautama Buddha himself was not a Buddhist, neither were his followers Buddhists, they were simply in the presence of a Buddha.

The fact is that anything at all which deviates from the commonly accepted standards of the society is going to be called a "cult", even though the whole humanity consists of so many cults. But ordinarily, what is more commonly accepted, you do not call it a "cult". Nobody has ever heard of somebody calling the democratic party a cult, or communists a cult, even though they are just as much cults as anything else.

What is important is not whether something is a "cult" or not, but whether any group or community consists of individuals who are conscious and awake. If they consist of individuals who are unconscious, in a deep sleep - then it does not matter what tradition or stream they follow, all of one's actions are certain to reflect the same unconsciousness, and can only end up contributing more and more to the suffering on this Earth.
AmirMourad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 05:19 AM   #3
AmirMourad
sahásra Member
 
AmirMourad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,158
"in my opinion for example Sahaja Yoga is undeniably a Cult - you are gradually indoctrinated and not told anything like the full story when you first go to meetings, arranged marriages, rituals to banish demons, if you leave you are taught bad things will befall you, unquestioned loyalty and devotion to Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi"

This is not different at all than what has happened in Christianity, or the Islamic empire. The Christians have been clinging to the belief in Jesus as the Son of God, and that through belief in him one can enter into paradise, the Muslims are clinging to the belief that Mohammed is the last and final prophet of the one and only God. And both have been programming the mind of man with ideas and beliefs which are just fictions. The followers of the Sahaja Yoga are delusional, not because they are a cult, but because its founder herself is completely asleep. The whole thing is just a situation of the blind guiding the blind. It is not a matter of whether something is a "cult " or not, but of whether any group or organization can consist of human beings who are conscious and awake. If it consists of people who are still living out of unconsciousness, then whatever action one does - ones unconsciousness is going to be reflected in it. In the end, one can only be successful at contributing more and more suffering on this Earth. It may be in the name of "Sahaja Yoga", or Christianity, or democracy, or just about anything - it makes no difference.
AmirMourad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 06:14 AM   #4
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
I have been involved in two of the cults mentioned above: Brahma Kumaris and Sahaja Yoga. I have had interaction with TM members too and attended a few Osho meets.

Brahma Kumaris

I am very indebted to the BK's because it was through the BK's that I had my first spiritual experiences. At the time I got involved in this organization, I was a hardcore atheist and nihilist. Originally, I got involved in the BK's to learn meditation and because I was directed there by family friends with the promise they will answer all my questions. When I got there the first thing I realised was that this was an outright lie, they do not let you ask questions, but instead ask you to surrender everything you know by visualizing putting all your knowledge inside a box and throwing the box away. Then they proceed to teach you spiritual philosophy and Raja yoga meditation for which you attend once or twice a week the residence of your local teacher for one to one tutorials and group courses, as well as occasional events.

At that time I was not very aware of Yoga, but I soon learned that what they were teaching me was hokey. The first dogma I spotted was when they were teaching me about their eschatology showing me the diagram of the tree with all the religious teachers Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, Guru Nanak, and their founder at the top. They claimed that their leader was the most complete teacher yet and revealed the full truth. When I attended a picnic, I met the teacher of another lodge who told me he burned his degrees when he became a BK teacher, and proceeded to tell me how the BK's had the most complete knowledge by presenting me a dubious analogy of watching a play, some people have been watching the play longer and some have have just come in, the people who were there from the start have the most complete knowledge. I quickly realised this was dogma.

I soon became fed up of how ambigious their meditation technique was. I was told to simply "go up there" meaning to focus on my third eye, while they played a guided meditation tape recorded in a pretentious sounding voice sayomg "I am peace" I soon realised that nobody I met there seemed to radiate peace, in fact the sisters seemed very miserable. I also found the philosophy course juvernile, I was learning no philosophy, but being preached to and soon found my preacher was trying to control my life and if I asked too many questions, they would threaten abandoning me.

When I met one of their success stories a man who they said was a paranoid wreck and drug user in the past, but they transformed him, it was enough to drive me away. Indeed, now he was a manager at boots, but he sounded utterly brainwashed. He told me was celibate, he was learning Hindi because it was going to be the language of the world in the coming golden age, and the whole world will perish, except India. Nothing he said convinced me I was speaking to an independent person. He sounded like a robot.

The final nail in the coffin was when tedium set in with the group meetings. I realised there were people coming there for years to listen to the same damn lectures every week. They all had a very brainwashed quality about them. I asked them what was the need to repeat the same lectures every week, and they told me repetition was needed to install the teachings. But for years? I knew I was not going to develop with the BK's, so I simply stopped going. Occasionally they invite myself and my family to events and we attend out of courtesy, but none of us go to their weekly classes.

Now, a lot more knowledgeable, I realis the BK's were a highly dubious and watered down version of real Yoga. They did not teach Raja Yoga at all, but some new-age stuff that they called Raja Yoga. They falsely advertise that they teach Raja Yoga. They are relatively harmless though, the only flaws I could see was that they were naive and gullible and did false advertising, but I saw no evidence of foul play.

Sahaja Yoga

I was involved in Sahaja Yoga only very recently, about just over a year ago. Initially, every cult I have attended seemed positive, and my experience was the same with SY. I saw them conducting a public worshop at our local mall and was impressed with all the energy work they did. I liked the sound of a Yoga that do energy work. But within 2 weeks I realised it was too good to be true. I became acquainted with their pseudoscience of checking vibrations and soon realised they used this pseudoscience to push their organizational dogmas. Basically whatever they believed they said I could check by "checking the vibrations" while tacitly telling me not to question anything. I quickly clocked that they worshipped the founder as the divine mother, but I decided to overlook that so I can learn the energy work. When I did eventually, I realised what a pile of made up crock it was. It was based on very subtle sensations on your fingers, even something as basic as feeling an air current, and based on that a diagnosis was made of which chakras were acting up. If you could not feel the vibrations, that was fine, because they would confirm it for you(wink) But I made friends there now and we did things together, so I stayed for a while. But when they took me to a going deeper meeting and showed me a brainwashing video of their founder it repulsed me. I soon got in touch with them and told them I had ideological problems with their claims about their founder and told them I would be leaving. They responded, "That I would eventually find out their founder was really the divine mother, but I did not know it because I could not check the vibrations"

Needless to say, I left and so did 3 other people I introduced to it. I guess none of us were feeling the vibrations from her divine holiness
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 06:41 AM   #5
The Scales
Desisted
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,225
To lump SRF in with Dhan and Sahaja does a disservice to SRF.


The 'article' linked to SRF in the first post appears to have been written by a fundamentalist christian.

Really?
The Scales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 06:53 AM   #6
The Scales
Desisted
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmirMourad View Post

This is not different at all than what has happened in Christianity, or the Islamic empire. The Christians have been clinging to the belief in Jesus as the Son of God, and that through belief in him one can enter into paradise, the Muslims are clinging to the belief that Mohammed is the last and final prophet of the one and only God.

And both have been programming the mind of man with ideas and beliefs which are just fictions.



The followers of the Sahaja Yoga are delusional, not because they are a cult, but because its founder herself is completely asleep. The whole thing is just a situation of the blind guiding the blind. It is not a matter of whether something is a "cult " or not, but of whether any group or organization can consist of human beings who are conscious and awake. If it consists of people who are still living out of unconsciousness, then whatever action one does - ones unconsciousness is going to be reflected in it. In the end, one can only be successful at contributing more and more suffering on this Earth. It may be in the name of "Sahaja Yoga", or Christianity, or democracy, or just about anything - it makes no difference.

Ironic.
The Scales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 07:05 AM   #7
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
As for TM meditation. My interest in TM started in the early 90's, when I first heard about it from my French teacher. I was most fascinated by her telling me that it caused her friend to levitate. I think what she really meant was that she hopped off the ground in their Siddhi flying program. I was too young then to get involved in TM. But I am glad I didn't because later I realised it was a scam. You pay the TM organization £1000+ to get initiated with a mantra and a meditation technique that is as good as daydreaming. You can get a mantra for free and daydreaming does not cost a thing. In the first year of university I met somebody who was born into the TM tradition. He meditated everyday and had been doing it for 20+ years, but I noted that he had nothing to show for it. I asked him what his meditation entailed and he told me it was simply to sit for 30 min everyday. I then realised he had not been meditating at all, but was daydreaming for 30 min a day. When I told him this, he became very hostile to me. I explained to him that meditation requires concentrated focus on a single object as the Yoga sutras stipulate, not to allow your mind to wander, but he contested my definition saying it was subjective and authoratarian. I of course maintained what he was doing was not meditation. We fell out.
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 07:29 AM   #8
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
The experiences with the Osho group have been limited. I have attended about 5 meetings of the Osho group. Depending on which day you attend, you do a different meditation, but which in reality are all the same. There is the love meditation, the Kundalini shaking meditation and chakra balancing meditation - they all involve raving to music. Basically it is a glorified rave. It is little more than an excuse for people to meet up to rave and touch each other. Fortunately, when I attended the meets the most touching people did was hug each other, but I know more than that went on at the main Osho ashram. One time a person attended who taught sex tantra. He gave me a lift back home, and I asked him a probing question whether people attended his classes simply to exploit others for their own sexual gratification - he responded even if they did, it was all good in the end.

The people who attended the Osho group all seemed to enjoy chaos. They looked down on order, science, rationality, reason. For them life was just one big orgy.
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 09:40 AM   #9
MindNinja
ashiití
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Surya Deva,
What is incredible regarding OSHO is that his followers must be completely in denial about exactly what he did, believed and advocated in his lifetime; they must absolve him of any responsibility (as some feebly attempt with leaders of other 'cults') i.e. he was unaware of what others were doing in his organisation and did not order those actions. It is undeniable the evidence overwhelming that of course he knew basically everything that was going on, including illegal practices and actions - such as poisoning water supplies, etc. If people think his writings were great or he was a deep mystical philosopher (I personally think his writings are awful a hodge podge of ideas designed to lure people into believing he had all the answers but that's just my view) that's fine, but you cannot separate the man and his actions from his teachings i.e. akin to saying it's okay to be a money making charlatan (with a fleet of around 100 Rolls Royces paid for from folowers funds of course), and advocate bizaree teachings and practices, and to condone illegal activities, as long as you have a strong message and you writings are good.

Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh was completely repackaged and remarketed after his passing to still try lure in the gullible and with the increasing New Age popularity and interest in spiritual matters. Gone were the bright coloured orange robes, name change to just Osho, etc , etc. Just like Divine Light Mission change to becoming Elan Vital - repackaged and marketed to appeal more to Westerners - less Indian mysticism, business suit for Guru Maharaj Ji rather than Eastern Indian outfit, etc, etc. The film 'Fear Is The Master' about Rajneesh is worth seeking out, not sure if online anywhere in its entirety.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jBeqXG9VuU

Regarding Brahma Kumaris I have attended several meetings and a retreat with them in the past, what is incredible is what little there is in the movement, basically one technique of meditation usually done with eyes open staring at an image of a dot (or dot surrounded by light or rays picture) and that's it. This is done for long periods of time. The teachings like you said of course their founder had the complete truth, whilst Jesus, Buddha etc were below him in spiritual standing and knew less, etc. Beliefs like encouraging people to be celibate can of course bring huge problems to relationships & marriages if one person is not in Brahma Kumaris whilst the other gets immersed in it. Rather selfish and ridiculous too to teach celibacy thus relying fully on people outside the organisation to bring children into the world and new members for them in the future. They claim what they do is Raja Yoga and use the term a lot in promoting it's activities and in writings, yet it has little relation to Raja Yoga as practiced by others.

Well worth looking at : http://bkwsuwatch.com/ especially as Brahma Kumaris like movements such as SRF Self Realization Fellowship are generally considered by many to be completely harmless and definitely not Cults.

The Scales
That is your perception but one is which not shared by everyone else, and to many SRF is little different in its nature as a cult than Sahaja Yoga etc. In SRF there is a line of gurus to be followed, there is the mystical immortal Mahavatar Babaji, Kriya Yoga is meant to the ultimate form of Yoga, etc whilst it claims you can believe in it and follow any religion (Scientology claims the same) truth is it has specific beliefs and practices not compatible with other faiths, and if you become fully immersed in it you will probably leave any other faith behind.

http://yoganandarediscovered.org/


Amir Mourad
The examples you cite are blatantly false. Go to a Catholic church you can leave anytime, you need not believe everything taught, and unlikely all your family and friends will disown you should you choose to leave. All teachings are open upfront you can ask anything, read up on anything, no hidden doctrines though some granted like Trinity, Transubstantiation, etc may take explanation to fully comprehend. Compared to Sahaja Yoga where you are gradually indoctrinated at first it just seems like harmless yoga movement but over time they introduce you to the more bizarre teachings once they have you hooked and interested, and you are taught if you leave the movement great calmatity or evil will befall you, you must have complete unquestioning faith in Shree Mataji and her teachings, you will start to do rituals to ward off evil and demons, there are arranged marriages that take place also, if you leave you will most definitely be shunned by friends remaining in the movement (very strong psychological hold), you will believe Shree Mataji is greater than any other spiritual figure (here is Mataji putting down various spiritual figures) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXn930qZCdc).

Shree Mataji the public image and 'front' : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R0bn...eature=related
MindNinja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 10:00 AM   #10
The Scales
Desisted
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindNinja View Post

The Scales
That is your perception but one is which not shared by everyone else, and to many SRF is little different in its nature as a cult than Sahaja Yoga etc. In SRF there is a line of gurus to be followed, there is the mystical immortal Mahavatar Babaji, Kriya Yoga is meant to the ultimate form of Yoga, etc whilst it claims you can believe in it and follow any religion (Scientology claims the same) truth is it has specific beliefs and practices not compatible with other faiths, and if you become fully immersed in it you will probably leave any other faith behind.

http://yoganandarediscovered.org/
Nice pink and purple web site you got linked up there in your second post. Your first link was written by an obvious christian fundamentalist and the second was written by someone who with an interest in some law suit - which it practically says - right there in the first couple of paragraphs of the pink and purple.



You do a disservice by lumping SRF in with the others. I think if you had half a clue you would know this.
The Scales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 10:57 AM   #11
Suhas Tambe
saptashata Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 770
This appears like a public hearing of alleged wrong-doers already found guilty before the trial. One humble question, who among the judges have walked any of these walks? It takes only a keyboard to opine, but a life-time effort to understand.
Suhas Tambe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 11:12 AM   #12
bjoy
serpent power
 
bjoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 311
The taproot of mystical experience lies in consciousness, and consciousness in different individuals is not the same. The one great lesson which this experience brings home to us is that the very fundamental constituent of personality, namely consciousness, varies in different people. When we say that a certain man is intelligent and another dull or that one is more aesthetic or sensitive than the other, we often invest him with a conscious personality like our own, but with the difference that he is more or less intelligent, or more or less sensitive. This is a mistake based on a fundamentally erroneous way of thinking; for as no two faces and no two streams of thought are exactly alike, so no two units or pools of consciousness, representing the personality or the outer area of manifestation of the soul, are alike in any two persons, including even identical twins. Each unit of human consciousness has, as it were, its own volume, its own area, its own depth, its own power of perception, grasp, and penetration. It has its own memory, scale of passion and intensity of desire. Each personality has a distinct stamp, a peculiar pattern clearly embossed on it, to which it conforms more or less throughout its life. In the genuine mystical state this everyday personality that has its roots in the deepest strata of the human mind evaporates for a time, opening its otherwise strongly enclosed precincts to the influx of a torrent that floods the now empty enclosure with a new kind of life, a new pattern of consciousness, and, overflow-ing the former narrow boundaries, causes mixed feelings of won-derment, exaltation, bliss, awe, and a sense of all-pervasiveness, infinity, and sovereignty in the now eclipsed original personality, a thin shadow of which still lurks in the mind. If this shadow did not survive it would be impossible for the normal consciousness to have any recollection of the extraordinary experience. One would come back from it, like a man awakening from dreamless slumber, without the recollection of any impression received in that state. Even in nirvikalpa samadhi (contemplation) an attenuated shadow of the normal self continues to function and brings back the memory of the stupendous vision seen. Quivering and throbbing, the overshadowed self, shrunken almost to a pinpoint before the immeasurable Presence that now encompasses it, has still the faculty left to make a comparison between itself and the veritable Universe of Being, unlike anything known to it on the earth, absolutely beyond description, with which for a breathless interval and with unutterable rapture it finds itself in complete identity, like a drop of water merged with the ocean to which it belongs.
The description of the Cosmic Being contained in the eleventh chapter of the Bhagavad-Gita shows overawed Arjuna (the human element still left even in the highest form of mystical contempla-tion) in a state of utter surrender, confronted by the infinite, indescribable Universe of Life, revealed to him in a divine vision through the grace of Krishna (the Cosmic Self). If mystical union is a genuine experience of the human mind, and not merely a delusive state, there must be a concordance in the essentials of the fully blossomed state experienced by the visionaries of all religions, irrespective of the period or the culture to which they belong. The surest way to cast a doubt on the validity of the phenomenon, and thereby on the fundamental basis of religion itself, is for the adherents of one faith to belittle or to question the genuineness of the experience described by the contemplatives of another religion or cult.
bjoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 12:30 PM   #13
Sahasrara
Om
 
Sahasrara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindNinja View Post
What are peoples opinions of Yoga groups that are considered Cults by Cult awareness groups, etc?

Here are few such groups :

Brahma Kumaris (Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University / Raja Yoga)
Sahaja Yoga
Siddha Yoga (Muktananda / Gurumayi Chidvilasananda)
Self Realization Fellowship (Paramahansa Yogananda)
Himalayan Institute of Yoga Science & Philosophy
Transcendental Meditation (based on Raja Yoga)
Elan Vital (Divine Light Mission)
Dahn Yoga
etc etc
How about including "Art of Living" In this thread? Any comments and personal experiences?

Is this also a cult? take a look at the following link.

artoflivingfree.blogspot.com

They all sound like MAYA in different colors with Saguna Brahman (I may be wrong)
Sahasrara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 05:11 PM   #14
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
Namaste Mindninja,

It is important to expose cults, but it also important not to swing too much the other way to anti-cult organizations. Every big organization has enemies, just as every big personality does. There are several of these anti-cult and anti guru organizations set up by disgruntled ex-members, and in many cases you will find they spread disinformation, exaggerate faults etc. If you get involved in a spiritual cult, you are getting involved in a community of people who share similar beliefs and are accepting a heirarchy. If you agree with those beliefs and the heirarchy, then that is fine. You have chosen to be a part of it. However, if you do not agree, then that is fine as well, do not be a part of it. But often it is the case that people join but do not really believe in their beliefs, and later face problems. For example on the anti-BK site you linked, one of the sisters ends up falling in love with a male member, but she knew from the start that celibacy is one of their tenets. She ends up commiting suicide from the censure she gets. But of course she was going to get censure. Did she expect them to change their tenets?

A lot of these anti and disgruntled ex members would not be so, if they just did some research before they got involved in a spiritual cult. I have never had a problem with cults. When I wanted to leave, I left with no problems. I left the BK's because they were shallow and had nothing to keep me there, I left SY because I realised the founder was a fraud and their techniques pseudoscience. I never got too involved, because I did my research early on, realised I did not agree with them, and left. I left the Osho group because I realised they were just a bunch of hippies.
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 05:58 PM   #15
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
Regarding Osho,

My exposure to Osho has made Osho an unlikely teacher in my life. I was not expecting to becoming so taken in by him. What Osho teaches is pure spiritual anarchy, but it really strikes a chord with the rebellious side inside you. I grew up as a Sikh, and I got really fed up of the moral preaching at me from the priests at the Sikh temple and from my family, when realising that they themselves did not practice what they preach. I met many priests who were meat eaters, drank alcohol and were simply horrible people. I got fed up of this mantra of god, god god. Osho for me, was a release from the false morality of religion. I became completely liberated when I realised I could do whatever I want and I did not need the concept of god. I need to free myself from all the conditioning I had received in life of being moral, and I went all out drinking, having sex, being arrogant, throwing morality out of the picture and doing whatever I bloody wanted - I became one of the most debauched people I know. I even surpassed my friend who also became an unlikely guru to me(also debauched, but harmless) Of course, I never harmed anybody else - if there is anybody I have harmed by following Osho's teachings - is myself. Although I am fine at the moment, I have probably really severely damaged my energy and physical body. The amount of sex I have had with random strangers, in the seediest of places and alcohol I have consumed averaging 20-30 pints a weekend + dozens of mixers, could probably set records. At one point I drank everyday for 2 months and would come home at 7am in the morning.

I recently fell severely ill: First I was hit by shingles, which is a very rare immunity disease. But fortunately, it only lasted a few days and the pain it is suppose to leave did not happen. Recently, I was hit by tonsilitits(another rare immunity problem for adults) then chest infection, then fever that remained for weeks, and then severe dehydration. I only recovered this week. I have not touched any alcohol for a whole month, and have now quit.

I have paid a heavy price in following the left hand path of Osho, and I will probably be paying it back for the rest of my life. The damage I have done to my energy body, and to lesser extent physical body is invisible - but I know it is there. But do I regret it? Not at all. I freed myself from false morality. I am now in a position to go onto the right hand path. I may have destroyed my chances in getting enlightenment in this life, but I have cleared the way for my future lives. So Osho has served a very important role as a guru in my life - to break me so I can reinvent myself.
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 06:11 PM   #16
The Scales
Desisted
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya Deva View Post
Regarding Osho,

My exposure to Osho has made Osho an unlikely teacher in my life. I was not expecting to becoming so taken in by him. What Osho teaches is pure spiritual anarchy, but it really strikes a chord with the rebellious side inside you. I grew up as a Sikh, and I got really fed up of the moral preaching at me from the priests at the Sikh temple and from my family, when realising that they themselves did not practice what they preach. I met many priests who were meat eaters, drank alcohol and were simply horrible people. I got fed up of this mantra of god, god god. Osho for me, was a release from the false morality of religion. I became completely liberated when I realised I could do whatever I want and I did not need the concept of god. I need to free myself from all the conditioning I had received in life of being moral, and I went all out drinking, having sex, being arrogant, throwing morality out of the picture and doing whatever I bloody wanted - I became one of the most debauched people I know. I even surpassed my friend who also became an unlikely guru to me(also debauched, but harmless) Of course, I never harmed anybody else - if there is anybody I have harmed by following Osho's teachings - is myself. Although I am fine at the moment, I have probably really severely damaged my energy and physical body. The amount of sex I have had with random strangers, in the seediest of places and alcohol I have consumed averaging 20-30 pints a weekend + dozens of mixers, could probably set records. At one point I drank everyday for 2 months and would come home at 7am in the morning.

I recently fell severely ill: First I was hit by shingles, which is a very rare immunity disease. But fortunately, it only lasted a few days and the pain it is suppose to leave did not happen. Recently, I was hit by tonsilitits(another rare immunity problem for adults) then chest infection, then fever that remained for weeks, and then severe dehydration. I only recovered this week. I have not touched any alcohol for a whole month, and have now quit.

I have paid a heavy price in following the left hand path of Osho, and I will probably be paying it back for the rest of my life. The damage I have done to my energy body, and to lesser extent physical body is invisible - but I know it is there. But do I regret it? Not at all. I freed myself from false morality. I am now in a position to go onto the right hand path. I may have destroyed my chances in getting enlightenment in this life, but I have cleared the way for my future lives. So Osho has served a very important role as a guru in my life - to break me so I can reinvent myself.

you have done no such damage to the energy body. Wouldn't be much of an energy body if it could be damaged so easily.

The physical body has very good powers of recuperation if working properly.

No chances have been destroyed.

Osho provided you with self knowledge. This is self study.
The Scales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 07:15 PM   #17
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Scales View Post
you have done no such damage to the energy body. Wouldn't be much of an energy body if it could be damaged so easily.

The physical body has very good powers of recuperation if working properly.

No chances have been destroyed.

Osho provided you with self knowledge. This is self study.
Let us hope you are right. I will soon be on the right hand path.
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 07:53 PM   #18
MindNinja
ashiití
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Surya Deva,

Of course well aware anti-cult people especially disgruntled ex-members have an axe to grind so to speak. However with many Cults not just Eastern ones such as Scientology, Moonies (Unification Church), The Family (Children of God), etc - the evidence is so overwhelming it is undeniable to anyone with an open mind, and easlily provable using official documents and sources from the movement.

There are many hallmarks or key factors of Cults. One is hiding lot of the knowledge what they really believe to new members then slowly indoctrinating them - this is done in Scientology, Sahaja Yoga, Moonies, etc. They most certainly do not put all their cards on the table to potential or new recruits because many would run a mile (e.g. if they new about Xenu the galatic warlord and alien spirits Thetans causing all human afflictions, or L. Ron Hubbard's blatant lies about his achievements and personal history, etc). With Sahaja Yoga this is certainly the case too, you go along and it seems like a harmless Yoga group they give you few basic exercises; they don't mention how they really regard Shri Mataji, demon banishing rituals, arranged marriages, etc.

Another hallmark of a Cult is 'love bombing' as a new member you are showered with attention everybody talks to you and tries to make you feel as welcome as possible, they are like your new best friends. Sahaja Yoga, Moonies, Scientology , etc are notoroius for it.

Future Financial commitment is also kept secret from new recruits, Scientology will never tell a new member to get to the top level requires hundreds of thousands of pounds or dollars. They gradually reel you in and 'hook' you, and get you to sign up for more courses. They will also never tell you initially of nice little clause in contract you will sign in future - as a Scientology member you get all courses at huge discounts but should you ever leave, you have to payback them all in the full amounts, thus they can bankrupt you and tremendous psychological ploy so you don't leave easily. If you do leave you basically lose all friends and family still in Scientology and are effectively cut off.

TM - Transcendental Meditation holds back to new or potential recruits on the huge costs, and certainly does not reveal you learn Mantra and prayers as it claims initially to be completely non religious and compatible with any existing faith out there. TM has strong marketing, hyping what is basic meditation nothing particularly unique or special as something amazing that can transform the world.

As mentioned earlier some would say SRF Self Realization Fellowship, Brahma Kumaris, etc are not cults and totally harmless, whilst Sahaja Yoga or the Moonies would be an example of cults. Is there really that much distinction between them?
MindNinja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 08:32 PM   #19
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
Yes, we should definitely expose dangerous cults. I have a friend who was involved in Scientology, and he told me how bad they were. First of all they charge very expensive prices for their course, they give you discounts on later ones. He said he had appreciated the techniques he had learned. But I said to him, those techniques were not invented by Scientology(such as sweating it out in the sauna) and he could have learned everything for free if he did a bit of research. He told me how controlling scientology was, how they would personally send envoys to your house to check up on you if you missed a session.

In my opinion Sahaja Yoga and Osho group qualify as dangerous cults, but BK's I don't think are dangerous. Gullible and naive indeed, but I have never seen any evidence of foul play. They are also endorsed by the UN and many other reputable organizations.

I barely know nothing about SRF. I understand that it was founded by Yogananda, but now that he has passed away, I understand SRF split up into many splinter groups. There is a web site started by an ex member online who reveals all the Kriya yoga techniques, he argued that when you learn them in the organization you literally have to wait for years and he did not agree with the secrecy. The techniques he has published in his ebooks and they are very powerful techniques. I did them for a while, before abandoning meditation altogether and going the Osho path.

TM is a scam. I would not say dangerous - but definitely a scam.
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 09:08 PM   #20
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
I have also been involved in Anandamarga Yoga for about a year. I think next to the BK,s this was my longest time in a cult. Anandamarga Yoga operates in various universities teaching Yoga and meditation. When I discovered my local university had a Yoga and meditation society, I promptly joined it. We were greeted by a monk(who call themselves dada) who was upfront about what their path was about(It is a form of tantra) As always, I did research on it and discovered that it was branded as a Terrorist organization in the past. But the reason for those were the extreme actions the followers took when the leader Prahbat Sarkar was wrongfully imprisoned by a corrupt government. So I gave it the benefit of the doubt. I was formally initiated into Anandamarga Yoga up to the second level of teaching and attended three retreats. I was initiated by my acharya in a formal ceremony.

Anandamarga Yoga was far more serious spiritual business than other groups I have been involved in. Their techniques were proper Yoga. In the first phase I was initiated with a mantra which he said was unique to me(I have heard from one source the mantra is the same for everybody) in addition to the universal mantra we are given: Baba naam kevalam.
In the second phase I was given a visualization exercise and a pranayama with synchronized mantra. We also all learned a Yogic dance and the Tandava. What drove me away from the organization was the excessive kirtaan we did, especially at the retreats with the universal mantra. I am not a devotional person, so I found too much Kirtaan really off putting.

I was also putt off by the political actions of the organizations. Anandamarga is not just a Yogic tradition, it is highly political and is involved in activism. When I met the dadas at the retreat, one of them really put me off with Dravidian nationalism. He told how the Aryans had oppressed the Dravidians and how in the Ramayana they were called dark demons. I realised that for a dada who should be more spiritually developed than me, he should be able to see through such propogananda. When I said this was propoganda, he accused me of being Hindutva(Hindu nationalist) I was not impressed. They also insisted that Shiva was the founder of Yoga and Tantra was a global tradition going back tens of thousands of years. I said Shiva was a mythological figure, not a real life historical person. They opposed me saying they would put me in touch with historians in the organization.

As with any cult there was a tendency to censor free, critical and independent thinking. I had many debates with my acharya and he would rudely censor me in front of everybody. When they would ask questions about the Yoga philosophy we learned, he would tell us we were wrong if our answer was not word for word the same as he taught it. I noticed he had a lot of ego and loved the sound of his own voice. He was suppose to be a monk and high initiate - but I was not impressed. He once shouted at me in front of everyone. I stopped going thereafter.
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 06:57 AM   #21
bjoy
serpent power
 
bjoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahasrara View Post
How about including "Art of Living" In this thread? Any comments and personal experiences?

Is this also a cult? take a look at the following link.

artoflivingfree.blogspot.com

They all sound like MAYA in different colors with Saguna Brahman (I may be wrong)



dont hit da heAD.
bjoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 07:22 AM   #22
Sahasrara
Om
 
Sahasrara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjoy View Post
dont hit da heAD.
I didn't get it
Sahasrara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 07:39 AM   #23
bjoy
serpent power
 
bjoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 311
MAYA in different colors. Thats true.
bjoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 07:53 AM   #24
Sahasrara
Om
 
Sahasrara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjoy View Post
MAYA in different colors. Thats true.
Scriptures say MAYA is Saguna Brahman. I may be wrong. I am not an expert in scriptures.

It is the karmic cycle which leads one to these cults and it is also the same karmic cycle that removes the veil of MAYA.

Servam Brahmamayam!
Sahasrara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 10:06 AM   #25
bjoy
serpent power
 
bjoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 311
maybe, you are right. howmany livetimes we'll stick to that cycle of karma. maybe, we need a breakonthrough. i need to kiss the sky, excuseme.

aum.
bjoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 10:14 AM   #26
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
I am not sure we could say Saguna Brahman is Maya. Remember, the difference between Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman is form and formlessness. Saguna Brahman is also Brahman, but it's Brahman manifest as a form. Say Surya Deva

Maya is more of the ignorance of perception. Mistaking the unreal to be the real, the not self to be the self, pain to be pleasure. It an illusory energy born out of a potency within Brahman itself.
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 09:30 PM   #27
AmirMourad
sahásra Member
 
AmirMourad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,158
" Mistaking the unreal to be the real, the not self to be the self"

To discriminate between the two may be useful just as a means of entry into ones own original nature. Otherwise, once one has come to the space, these distinctions simply disappear - they are none other than shadows of ones own mind. It is ones own mind which has divided things into categories of polar opposites, between the self and the non-self, the real and the unreal, the good and the bad, the right and the wrong, darkness and light, male and female, existence and non-existence, all of which are just reflections of ones own relative ideas and concepts. Truth is not something that belongs to any of our mental categories whatsoever. Raise even a single thought about it - and one immediately becomes entangled in delusion. Inexpressible beyond the inexpressible, to grasp it is like trying to swallow the whole ocean in one gulp. When in a direct encounter with ones own original nature, let there be a silent understanding and nothing more.
AmirMourad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 12:27 AM   #28
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
Haha, it almost sounds like I have had some experience with every cult. I am a true seeker in every sense of that word. I have looked at everything to satisfy my soul's thrist - and alas my soul is even more thirsty.

What else have I been involved in? I am a member of the Theosophical lodge. I have also given talks there.
This is my first Western cult. The Theosophical lodge are harmless today though, and to be honest a bit boring. They are too stuck in their Victorian ways, and they meet infrequently at the local lodge. The sessions are usually divided into a study group and then some random lecture on a new-age topic. In the past, I understand they have been involved in a lot of fradulent activity and I strongly question the origins of the Secret Doctrine and the Mahatma letters, which claim have been channeled to them by the adepts and ascended masters in India and Tibet. I do indeed like reading their literature, such as the Key to Theosophy - but they need a complete overhaul if they want to survive into the 21st century.

I have contact with other Western cults through friends: The Freemasons, The Golden Dawn, OTO - we occasionally meet in the pub and have dinner together. I also attended about a year of Gnostic classes. In general I find them harmless, and very knowlegable - but alas very new-age. Although they themselves oppose new-age stuff and resent the label. I know that a lot of the stuff they teach, which they claim is part of an indigenious Western tradition, is just a rehash of the Eastern tradition. A note to Western new agers: stop pretending you have an indigenious Yoga tradition. You do not. The closest thing you have to Yoga is Neo-platonism and Gnosticism, but they are definitely not as developed as Yoga and were prematurely ended by the Roman Empire. This is why you follow Yoga. Oh, and Kabbalh is not an authentic tradition, it is new-age interpretation of the bible.

What else have I been involved in? Dabbled in the new age attending spiritual churches weekly for a few months for open circle mediumship and healling. Had a medium mentor for a month. Attended some psychic development classes and learned crystal healing, dousing and healing, fragments of reikei, aura gazing, astral projection, Indigo children and other such superficial rubbish. This is a cult in itself because these people are highly needy, deluded and do not practice real spirituality. They delude themselves into thinking they have become enlightened - but they are usually just morons.

Attended 1 class of the Hare Krishnas and visited their IKSON temple in India. Just wow. These are some of the most fundamentalist people I have ever met, and stupid. Stay away for your sanity.

I have gone to Church a few times, but never a Mosque. I have read both the holy bible and the Quran. The Quran was leant to me by a Muslim fundamentalist student at high school in order to convert me. Obviously it did not work. These scriptures to me are at the bottom of the barrel of every scripture I have read and every new-age book I have read. The only reason people continue to read them is because they do it out of a sense of loyalty and respect or faith. Otherwise, they are just remenants of a primitive desert culture - and teach you NOTHING!

I have also read the Sikh bible the Guru Granth Sahib. It is a lot more positive and uplifting - but boy is it repetitive. I get the message already, "God is great, god is love, god is beyond description - god god god god god" It is basically a giant book of odes to god.

I am less versed in Buddhist scriptures. I have the Dhammapada lying around somewhere. I gave it a cursory glance, but was not too impressed. I have also read the Tao-te-ching, nice, but not too impressive. Buddhist and Taoic scriptures tend to be quite light in content, but still spiritually uplifting to read. They are no matches for Hindu scriptures though which are often rational and scientific discourses and teach pure spirituality.

Finally, in terms of "secular Yoga" I did the Bihar School of Yoga Satyananda Yoga for a few months. I found it dry, but very serious and no BS stuff. I am considering BSY seriously for my future path. They are very serious about their Yoga and their books, "Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas", "Yoga Nidra", "Sure ways to self-realization" are some of the best and most informative I have found ever. They are like a benchmark in Yoga.
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 01:30 AM   #29
The Scales
Desisted
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya Deva View Post
Haha, it almost sounds like I have had some experience with every cult. I am a true seeker in every sense of that word. I have looked at everything to satisfy my soul's thrist - and alas my soul is even more thirsty.

What else have I been involved in? I am a member of the Theosophical lodge. I have also given talks there.
This is my first Western cult. The Theosophical lodge are harmless today though, and to be honest a bit boring. They are too stuck in their Victorian ways, and they meet infrequently at the local lodge. The sessions are usually divided into a study group and then some random lecture on a new-age topic. In the past, I understand they have been involved in a lot of fradulent activity and I strongly question the origins of the Secret Doctrine and the Mahatma letters, which claim have been channeled to them by the adepts and ascended masters in India and Tibet. I do indeed like reading their literature, such as the Key to Theosophy - but they need a complete overhaul if they want to survive into the 21st century.

I have contact with other Western cults through friends: The Freemasons, The Golden Dawn, OTO - we occasionally meet in the pub and have dinner together. I also attended about a year of Gnostic classes. In general I find them harmless, and very knowlegable - but alas very new-age. Although they themselves oppose new-age stuff and resent the label. I know that a lot of the stuff they teach, which they claim is part of an indigenious Western tradition, is just a rehash of the Eastern tradition. A note to Western new agers: stop pretending you have an indigenious Yoga tradition. You do not. The closest thing you have to Yoga is Neo-platonism and Gnosticism, but they are definitely not as developed as Yoga and were prematurely ended by the Roman Empire. This is why you follow Yoga. Oh, and Kabbalh is not an authentic tradition, it is new-age interpretation of the bible.

What else have I been involved in? Dabbled in the new age attending spiritual churches weekly for a few months for open circle mediumship and healling. Had a medium mentor for a month. Attended some psychic development classes and learned crystal healing, dousing and healing, fragments of reikei, aura gazing, astral projection, Indigo children and other such superficial rubbish. This is a cult in itself because these people are highly needy, deluded and do not practice real spirituality. They delude themselves into thinking they have become enlightened - but they are usually just morons.

Attended 1 class of the Hare Krishnas and visited their IKSON temple in India. Just wow. These are some of the most fundamentalist people I have ever met, and stupid. Stay away for your sanity.

I have gone to Church a few times, but never a Mosque. I have read both the holy bible and the Quran. The Quran was leant to me by a Muslim fundamentalist student at high school in order to convert me. Obviously it did not work. These scriptures to me are at the bottom of the barrel of every scripture I have read and every new-age book I have read. The only reason people continue to read them is because they do it out of a sense of loyalty and respect or faith. Otherwise, they are just remenants of a primitive desert culture - and teach you NOTHING!

I have also read the Sikh bible the Guru Granth Sahib. It is a lot more positive and uplifting - but boy is it repetitive. I get the message already, "God is great, god is love, god is beyond description - god god god god god" It is basically a giant book of odes to god.

I am less versed in Buddhist scriptures. I have the Dhammapada lying around somewhere. I gave it a cursory glance, but was not too impressed. I have also read the Tao-te-ching, nice, but not too impressive. Buddhist and Taoic scriptures tend to be quite light in content, but still spiritually uplifting to read. They are no matches for Hindu scriptures though which are often rational and scientific discourses and teach pure spirituality.

Finally, in terms of "secular Yoga" I did the Bihar School of Yoga Satyananda Yoga for a few months. I found it dry, but very serious and no BS stuff. I am considering BSY seriously for my future path. They are very serious about their Yoga and their books, "Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas", "Yoga Nidra", "Sure ways to self-realization" are some of the best and most informative I have found ever. They are like a benchmark in Yoga.

I think you will find many, most, if not all jews - who are learned in the quaballa ' scoffing at your assertion.


The dhammapada and tao te ching are not impressive to you?



Brosif.

While I do certainly enjoy many of your rants, and your complete ownage of Amir in that one thread . . . (for you), and all your scholarly knowledge which I find considerable and your contributions to the diversity of this forum - this thread is a prime example - and yes - while I certainly do enjoy all that - more or less - i must tell you that when it comes to the vedas and the sanatana dharma - and all it's different flavors - you have tunnel vision.

In your eyes - nothing can compare to it.
The Scales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 02:10 AM   #30
Surya Deva
trisahasra Member
 
Surya Deva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,620
Absolutely, nothing compares to the Vedic tradition because nothing is as concentrated in knowlege From the Vedic corpus we learn the following:

We learn about the principles of dharma
We learn about the science of discernment between matter and consciousness
We learn about the science of economics
We learn about the science of Yoga
We learn about the science of medicine and surgery
We learn about the science of logic and epistemology
We learn about the science of linguistics
We learn about the science of metre
We learn about the science of astrology
We learn about the science of engineering

In which other tradition of religious scriptures do we learn this knowledge? The Dhammapada only focusses on moral teachings and teaching the four noble truths. The Tao-te-ching is just a collection of wise sayings. The bible is just a book telling you the history of the Judeo people and the conditions at the time. It gives you wrong information like the earth is flat, because that is what people believed then. Ethically, it is highly backwards.

The Vedic corpus gets the praise that it does because it is teaches you knowledge. You can still pick them up today and and increase your knowledge and learn something, and actually gain something. They also teach you practices you can go practice like pranayama etc. I am not the only one who says this. Look at the conversations we have on this board and look at the terminology we use: maya, prakriti, purusha, brahman, guna, atman, kosha, chitta, vritti, buddhi, prana, kundalini, chakras, nadi, vata, pitta, kapha, mahabhuta, yuga, karma, dharma. Where do all these terms come from? The Vedic corpus. We obviously use these terms because they are the most precise terms to describe what we want to describe.

The truth is clear we get all our knowledge of spirituality and Yoga from the Vedic corupus. This is why I praise the Vedic tradition. I once bumped into somebody on the street, a black man, before I could say Veda, he said it for me. He started talking about in all his studies he has done in his life into spirituality, he has found the Vedic tradition to have the most clearest and most advanced knowledge. All experts in spirituality agree. This is why we use Vedic terms. The very least we can do is show a bit of respect to this tradition.

We should not engage in jealousy games by comparing other scriptures like the bible, quran, tao-te-ching to them - because there is no comparison. These texts do not give you clear and precise knowledge on spirituality like the Vedas do. We use Vedic terms on this forum because the Vedas are the best sources of spiritual knowledge.

As for Kabbalh. I don't care what Jewish scholars say. Kabbah is a mystical interpretation of the OT. It is not authentic, because the meanings are invented using dubious methods of interpretation as credible as numerology is.
Surya Deva is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

 

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Truth about yoga (a article for discussion) jungle boy General Yoga Discussion 570 02-12-2014 04:36 AM
The Origins of the Ancient Yôga (Part II) Marcello108 General Yoga Discussion 20 07-15-2012 09:38 PM
Inquiry on Hatha and Raja Yoga Chandra General Yoga Discussion 3 06-04-2011 07:11 PM
Sequence of Yogasanas Johny74 General Yoga Discussion 1 09-01-2004 07:17 PM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:03 AM.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2010 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0