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| 11-25-2008, 05:14 PM | #1 |
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trimshát
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hertfordshire England
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I didn't like sob or howl, but during the meditational section I felt really ...
I'm not sure how to describe it except as emotional.. not greatly sad emotional or really happily emotional. is that normal.? does it happen to a lot of yoga practicioners.? |
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| 11-25-2008, 08:01 PM | #2 |
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Mostly Good Egg
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,786
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I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more. Though it may also be "under reported"
There's nothing about yoga that's normal - obviously. Though there's nothing to be alarmed about. Just take it in stride. It is neither something to be touted (thus inflating the ego) nor is it something to be hidden.
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Gordon Kaplan Certified Purna Yoga Teacher (CPYT) Yoga Alliance RYT-500 International Association of Yoga Therapists (IAYT) M.S. Kinesiology, Indiana University http://www.teamyoga.com http://www.yogamojodojo.com http://www.innerathlete.net/forum |
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| 11-25-2008, 11:01 PM | #3 |
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Observer
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For me, a big part of the healing process is working with negative emotional charges trapped in my body. Not only is what you experienced normal, I consider it very healthy. My guess is that you have many more unintegrated emotions within you. As the time is right, continue to go deeper within yourself.
I teach a form of yoga that is so emotionally laced that I invite people at the start of class to let what needs to come out, come out. Whether that be crying, laughter, anger, or whatever. By allowing yourself to experience what is ready to surface instead of holding it back, you actually help those around you heal as well. I'm not surprised. I feel that many teachers are uncomfortable with emotion and don't create a safe space for it. |
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| 11-26-2008, 02:20 AM | #4 | |
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Mostly Good Egg
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
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Gordon Kaplan Certified Purna Yoga Teacher (CPYT) Yoga Alliance RYT-500 International Association of Yoga Therapists (IAYT) M.S. Kinesiology, Indiana University http://www.teamyoga.com http://www.yogamojodojo.com http://www.innerathlete.net/forum |
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| 11-26-2008, 07:52 AM | #5 | |
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trimshát
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hertfordshire England
Posts: 33
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In British culture men aren't really allowed much emotional expression beyond cheering for a football team, or being angry at things. |
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| 11-26-2008, 07:58 AM | #6 |
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cátuhshata Member
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| 11-26-2008, 08:06 AM | #7 |
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trimshát
Join Date: Oct 2008
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| 11-26-2008, 09:23 AM | #8 |
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cátuhshata Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 439
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I think becoming emotional in class is great. That's something I've really embraced since moving to Boston. Yoga has become more than that cool workout everyone does! My teacher support me through what's going on as as I practice, things break down...especially on those hip class days!
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"Pit bulls are famous, in circles of knowledgeable dog people, for the love and loyalty they bestow on anyone who shows them a smidgen of kindness." -- Linda Wilson-Fuoco, journalist |
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| 11-26-2008, 10:02 AM | #9 | ||
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Observer
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Quote:
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Our society teaches us to deny emotion very early. "Tough it out." "Suck it up." "Boys don't cry". "You're being immature". "Don't get mad." "Stay centered." "I'll give you something to really cry about." We're not taught how to express or be comfortable with emotion, only deny it. In the end, if you have a 2nd grade education in math, you're not going to be comfortable helping someone with their Geometry. I understand why most yoga teachers are uncomfortable with it, the problem is, there are few aspects more important to the practice of yoga than letting out what is trapped inside us. "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you." As I mentioned, one of the forms of yoga I teach is designed to release emotion. I plant the seed that it's ok to release what comes up and that doing so helps others around them heal. It's amazing to feel the energy of the room as the emotion builds and begins to surface. As soon as one person lets go and begins to laugh or cry, many people around the room explode. All they need is intention and safety. How do we elicit the emotion? Specific poses designed to bring about neurogenic tremors. Neurogenic tremors help deep chronic tension in the body release. This deep chronic tension, due to the "what fires together, wires together" dogma of neuroscience, is usually trapped emotion. |
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| 11-26-2008, 12:45 PM | #10 |
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shatá Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 177
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Hi Folks,
I see overlapping issues being discussed here: revelation and emotional release due to the yoga, which is completely ok, natural and might even be expected on occasion, and sharing emotions or outbursts in class. I hope I am not being insensitive to some of you, but I don't believe they are both ok. Yoga class is not group therapy. In a classroom situation, you have to try and contain yourself. If you can't, don't feel bad, but do get up and take a break. Leave the room and rejoin the class when you're ready. It's the responsible thing to do. Go into yourself, go find a hug, laugh it out, whatever. What others may need is not to go there with you. Just my opinion. Peace, Siva |
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| 11-26-2008, 04:08 PM | #11 |
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trimshát
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 34
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i practice at home and sometimes an overwhelming sense of knowing everything is going to be ok ~ can trigger the emotions : )
letting go of our fears and worries even if its just for the time we are practicing can be quite overwhelming in a good sense. the real world and the problems of everyday life tend to wash away when i do yoga. which can (not always) lead to these types of feelings. : ) great ?
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myspace.com/ohpacemeteries * i can explain the name ~ later * let me know ur from the forum. peace and blessings. |
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| 11-26-2008, 05:01 PM | #12 |
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Eternal Optimist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 695
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Siva, I like what you said very much. I agree that there seem to be two trains of discussion here. The release of emotion in a yoga class is very normal, and to be expected. Depending on the emotion released it may or may not be appropriate for the class. I would certainly be uncomfortable with someone who became very angry in a class expressing that emotion (and for the record I have seen that). It would be an entirely different scenario for someone to cry during savasana.
David, I agree that expression is important, but feel a level of control in a classroom is important, as I stated above. I think one of the things North American culture (and perhaps British culture as well) confuses is when to express an emotion and when to merely tolerate said emotion. In my work I am often counselling adolescents not to run from their emotions, but rather to sit with them and learn to tolerate them. To allow oneself to just "feel" and to do nothing else is a difficult thing. That post felt rather fractured, I hope I made some sense. ![]()
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You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it. Robin Williams |
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| 11-26-2008, 09:34 PM | #13 | |||
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Observer
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Siva and Alix, I must lovingly disagree
But that's what is beautiful about yoga! We find teachers and studios that fit what we need. In my experience, the release of emotion is so vitally important that a teacher should create the safe space for that to happen. People attend my classes because of that. If either of you are teachers and people prefer emotion NOT be expressed, then you will attract students based upon that variable, students who would want nothing to do with me To those reading this thread, if you feel that emotion should be allowed to be fully expressed in a class, ask your teacher their opinion. If they say no, then find a new teacher. And of course vice versa. Quote:
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What's really neat is all of this can be explained on a physiological level by science. Why do certain scents cause us to recall a memory? Because of the, "What fires together wires together" rule of neuroscience. If you smelled something during a traumatic or memorable event, that smell is wired in with the memory of the event. When you smell a similar smell later in life, that same neural network is accessed which causes the brain to say, "Oh my god the last time you smelled this X happened which was REALLY bad so feel anxiety just like last time and RUN!" Emotion and deep chronic muscle tension often wire together because your body naturally clenches during traumatic events and you experience a certain emotion during said event. When you access and begin to let go of that deep chronic tension then the emotion that was wired in also begins to release. That emotion may have been fear, grief, anger, or whatever. The thing is, if you stop that emotion from releasing, the deep chronic tension doesn't release either. Watch someone having a massive emotional release. They'll also be shaking in certain areas of their body. That is the deep chronic tension releasing. Stop the shaking and the emotional release will subside. Stop the emotional release and the shaking will subside. Either way, you don't let go of what your body desperately wants to let go of. Quote:
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| 11-27-2008, 01:17 AM | #14 | |
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rockin' in the free world
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Boulder, CO, USA
Posts: 1,444
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Quote:
It is very normal to have experiences of all types during and resulting from practice. Sometimes these feelings or thoughts seem to actually have very little to do with us or any experience that we can remember having ourselves. This can make it even more confusing if we over think or over value the situation. The 5 koshas that make up our yogic anatomy are not separate, but mingle with each other, so that asana changes our breath, changes the state of our minds and our emotions. Meditation too changes our breath, our thoughts and our bodies. Nadis can be purified and this can causes many types of sensations. To share something about myself with you, I work with the feeling of terror with regards to my right psoas. When I do asana practice, get massage or have practice with my teacher, and many other situations, I feel it come up. The quality of the feeling has changed quite a bit over the years. And with committed practice, it is no longer captivating, but something I can watch without much charge to it now. The emotion of terror is still there, but the experience of the terror is no longer felt. I can simple watch it now. I think InnerAthlete gave you really excellent advice that I would like to echo: "Just take it in stride. It is neither something to be touted (thus inflating the ego) nor is it something to be hidden." When I am working with my clients, and with myself, and these experiences come up, I simple ask if it needs more action or if it done. Our monkey-mind tend to inflate and build stories around these experiences, this is a negative aspect of the ego, which only tends to keep you bound that which has come up to be released. Not every emotional experience or thought we have needs us to put energy into it, some just blow in and out of minds like clouds in the open sky, simple as that.
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![]() Nichole Nurenberg-Miller Structural & Ayurvedic Yoga Therapist Certified Yoga Therapist • RYT500 www.fivekoshayoga.com Last edited by Nichole; 11-27-2008 at 01:22 AM. |
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| 11-27-2008, 02:03 AM | #15 | ||
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Observer
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Quote:
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| 11-27-2008, 09:31 AM | #16 |
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Eternal Optimist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 695
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David, you say we may disagree but then tell the OP to find a teacher like you, thereby suggesting any other opinion is incorrect.
My opinion as a STUDENT is that I am uncomfortable with some emotions being expressed in class. (I am not a teacher as I feel it would be the height of ego for me to presume to teach while I am still on my own journey.) However, our society being what it is, it is incumbent upon teachers to make classes a safe place. I do not feel safe with aggressive emotion being expressed. And I believe you missed my point entirely. My point is that it is not necessary to express the emotion being brought forth. The lesson should be merely to tolerate said emotion. I believe I am not being clear so I will leave my message here.
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You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it. Robin Williams |
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| 11-27-2008, 11:32 AM | #17 | ||||
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Observer
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hawaii
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Quote:
Where did I say that? Quote:
I don't know what the OP prefers. All I was trying to say is that if it is important as a student to be able to express emotion, then one should communicate with their teacher to discern their stance on it. If their stance is not what you want and the issue is important enough, then find a new teacher. Quote:
It's understandable that you wouldn't feel safe. However, if that rage was expressed by someone while you were in my class, my hope is that you WOULD feel safe. If I did my job and created the safe space for people to express emotion and explained the physiology of WHY people do and need to express said emotion, then hopefully things would be more comfortable for you. Teachers should create safety for EVERYONE to have their experience. Create safety for that person to have their release and safety for the people around who might be scared by it. If the teacher was shaken up by the emotional expression then things are going to go downhill, and fast. And that's the problem I see. Many teachers are extremely uncomfortable with emotion which then leads to further discomfort for the person releasing the emotion and reinforced fear for those students who were already uncomfortable. "My god, that was scary, and John Doe teacher was scared too. That must have been bad!" Emotion is such a beautiful thing. It pains my heart to know that so many are denying themselves in this way. Quote:
And I think you're being plenty clear. I'm thoroughly enjoying the discourse we're all sharing here. It's top notch and gives us all great perspectives to ponder. *hugs* |
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| 11-27-2008, 01:19 PM | #18 | |
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rockin' in the free world
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Boulder, CO, USA
Posts: 1,444
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Thank you for the offer, but I must say that I find the neurogenic yoga thing a bit too flaky IMO. My degree is in integrative physiology with a focus on neurophysiology, so the post-What-the-Bleep-Do-We-Know neuroscience buzz words don't sell too easily with me. Anyway, I am more of a Patanjali Sutras and Classical Yoga therapy kinda gal. I don't care so much for the most basic interpretation of a yogakriya being newly packaged as "neurogenic tremors." Please friend, do not presume that I do not "delve" into the work of my life and that of my unique and God-blessed body. I have held a committed, daily spiritual practice since I was 11 years old and that is a mighty long time
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![]() Nichole Nurenberg-Miller Structural & Ayurvedic Yoga Therapist Certified Yoga Therapist • RYT500 www.fivekoshayoga.com Last edited by Nichole; 11-27-2008 at 01:33 PM. Reason: smelling errors...i mean spelling errors ;D |
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| 11-27-2008, 01:23 PM | #19 | |
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Observer
Join Date: Sep 2008
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No problem
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That's awesome that you have a background in neurophysiology. I look forward to you sharing your knowledge in the future. I'd also love to hear what I've said that you disagree with on the physiological level or what are mere buzz words. *hugs* |
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| 11-28-2008, 10:55 AM | #20 | |
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Eternal Optimist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 695
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Alright David, let me take this one step further because I truly believe you do not see what I am saying. What you are saying is that the expression of emotion...ALL emotion is good and right. Yes?
In that instance then, lets hypothesize that someone in my class becomes angry and chooses to express it by saying something nasty to me. My response is an angry one and I choose to express it by yelling back. This then descends into more anger and disharmony. We both feel safe enough in your class to express this to one another. Forgive me for sounding rude, but that is just crap. Rather than allowing an expression of emotion that disrupts others one should be teaching their students that the release of emotion is expected, and normal BUT they need to merely tolerate the feeling NOT express it. The definition of "express" means basically to expel or get rid of. That is not a healthy thing to do in all cases. I believe Nichole stated it better, and you quoted her words and I will too... Quote:
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You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it. Robin Williams |
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| 11-28-2008, 11:42 AM | #21 | |
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shatá Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 177
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If the teacher says no, then find another??? I taught myself to type with two fingers, which is very slow and time consuming. I would desperately love to type more quickly. My teacher says "use all your fingers," but it's so uncomfortable and I don't want to. I'm looking for someone who'll teach me to type faster with two fingers. Would that be better for me? Om Shanti, Siva |
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| 11-28-2008, 12:06 PM | #22 | |||
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Observer
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hawaii
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Quote:
That is not a release of emotion, that is a personal attack. I have NEVER seen someone going through an emotional release attack someone. What you speak of would absolutely NOT be tolerated in my class. What I speak of is a physiological-based release where the emotion is tied into deep chronic tension that has been held in the body. I would agree Quote:
We're talking about very different things. If I, in the middle of class start to feel mad because the person next to me does a better handstand and I yell at them, that is not an emotional release. Now, it IS based upon something from the past (which the releases I speak of stop from unconsciously taking place), but it is not a release and it is not healing to express. What I speak of is the release of emotion that is trapped within the physical confines of the body due to "what fires together wires together". Someone having such a release will have a vastly different experience. As that emotion releases, they will experience shaking as the deep chronic tension tied to the emotion is also released. Someone who experiences rage during such a release may yell out and make some pretty interesting noises, but they would NEVER attack someone because it's not an unconscious REACTION, it's a healthy RESPONSE to trapped emotion from the past being brought conscious. I would agree wholeheartedly that what you speak of should be tolerated if the person feels it. "I want to yell at that person" should be observed, tolerated, and allowed to pass. What I speak of should be allowed to release because it is the root cause of what you speak of and allows that unconscious reacting to finally be a thing of the past. Quote:
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| 11-28-2008, 12:12 PM | #23 | |
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Observer
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hawaii
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Hiya Siva
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With that said, I agree with what (I believe) you're trying to say. If something makes us feel uncomfortable and we don't have a logical, sound reason for avoiding it, then we should allow the teacher to hold up that mirror for us to look into. Discomfort is a sure sign there is something for us to examine. |
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| 11-28-2008, 12:32 PM | #24 |
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Eternal Optimist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 695
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I am confused then David. Are we saying the same thing with different words?
I have been in classes where expression of emotion is not only tolerated but encouraged and found them unhealthy as said expression could be exactly as I described above. I confess I do not understand.
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You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it. Robin Williams |
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| 11-28-2008, 01:07 PM | #25 | |
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Observer
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Quote:
We're talking about different things with the same words. This is a GREAT lesson for me as I now understand that I have to be infinitely more clear when I speak about this. Thank you SO MUCH. There are emotion laden attacks and there are emotional releases. These are VASTLY different things. 1. If I look at you during class and get mad because your handstand is better and yell at you, that is an emotion laden attack. This is NOT healthy nor should it be condoned. In the end, it has nothing to do with your handstand being better than mine. I yell at your because I am unconsciously reacting to something in my past. Let's say that when I was five years old my dad told me I wasn't good enough at sports. When he told me that, I got mad and clenched my stomach. Those words traumatized me and because I didn't integrate the experience correctly and the "what fires together wires together" rule takes hold, I developed a chronic tension pattern in my stomach where I clenched and the anger also got trapped there. While yelling at you, if I was able to come intensely conscious and felt my body, I would likely feel myself clenching my stomach because I am unconsciously reacting to that root trauma from my childhood. The same neural pathways are being accessed and I'm reliving the experience (hello karma) as an opportunity to properly integrate and release. 99.999% of the time we don't take advantage of this opportunity and the same exact thing will happen again down the line. 2. Once in a very rare while during a classical yoga class, we do some stretch or pose that accesses that area of the stomach holding the deep chronic tension in a way that allows it to release. The muscle will begin to shake. If we relax into it, it may REALLY begin to shake and release. At that point, because the emotion of anger is tied to that tension (what fires together wires together) anger will ALSO surface as part of the release. Quite often, the actual trauma will resurface in your mind (it becomes conscious so you can respond rather than react). You'll know EXACTLY what you're releasing. To stop the shaking would stop the release. To stop the release of the anger (which would definitely not be directed at someone) would stop the release. To allow both to fully release is liberation. You are liberated from a deep, long held wound that you have been unconsciously reacting to since the day it happened. Low and behold, you no longer get mad at the person doing a better handstand because you aren't unconsciously reacting anymore. Your whole world begins to change. To NOT allow such liberation to take place is... god, I can't articulate it. Whether the practitioner doesn't feel comfortable with allowing it to happen or the teacher hinders it, either way, what has been lost is one of the most vital aspects of true liberation. |
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| 11-28-2008, 09:07 PM | #26 |
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shatá Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 177
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David,
For these deeply seated experiences, it takes a lot of maturity and discipline (meditation) to learn the difference between emotions arising out of need for realization, and need for love and attention. Even then, it's difficult to sort out in public when it's also a surprise. For that reason we "practice" keeping them private. They have no value in the learning of hatha or meditation. They are separate and as teachers of yoga we want to encourage seeing them as separate. That doesn't disallow anyone anything, other than diverting attention to themselves. Peace, Siva |
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| 11-28-2008, 10:12 PM | #27 |
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Mostly Good Egg
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,786
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So much to cover...yikes.
It is clear from our studies that the musculature of the human body which is closer to the spine, closer to the nervous system, holds more powerful issues. Most of these muscles are smooth muscles or involuntary muscles (in terms of their contraction). The iliopsoas is a very significant muscle for so many reasons. Therefore it is not only important to address it must also be addressed with a heightened sense of care and mindfulness. Just as not every student is ready for Pincha Mayurasana neither is every student ready for a floodgate of opening of deep emotions. Some may never be ready. Some may be ready immediately. Like all things yoga, teachers should error on the side of caution because a powerful release (be it Kundalini or emotions) in an unprepared student can be incredibly harmful and damaging. The neurogenic tremor work looks interesting and I'd have to try it to give more feedback. That having been said, there are a variety of reasons that muscles quiver, shake, or tremor. All of those trace back to the nervous system. My teacher has written a reply in Yoga Journal that says it far better than I could so I'll link to that here. In some views giving action to emotion only serves to continue the enslavement to them. There are some perspectives that suggest the deep grooves of our consciousness (samskara) are further etched by acting out these emotions. Instead it is oft suggested to merely observe them, thus serving as both the seer and the seen. As we examine the Kleshas put forth in Patajali's Sutras we see how attachment and aversion are BOTH obstacles. Therefore, in that construct, one would not become attached to emotional release nor would one shove it away and resist it. Many things come in the practice of yoga. And we take them all with grace no matter how the old brain or lower nature wants to view them. As yoga teachers we must use care in clinging to a particular experience for students. As students we must use care in clinging to a particular experience for ourselves.
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Gordon Kaplan Certified Purna Yoga Teacher (CPYT) Yoga Alliance RYT-500 International Association of Yoga Therapists (IAYT) M.S. Kinesiology, Indiana University http://www.teamyoga.com http://www.yogamojodojo.com http://www.innerathlete.net/forum |
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| 11-28-2008, 11:22 PM | #28 |
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sahásra Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1,183
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Namaste Saturdaysun,
Your question reminds me of my own emotional issues I had. My own teacher always reminded me that yoga is first of all a purification of the physical body, the mind, the soul and the emotions. During this purification process we are confronted with many aspects of our existence and personality. Initially I didn't expereince much emotionally, but in my year three of yoga I one day experience this huge bout of anger during and after a class. This continued for a while and I was getting very worried that something was seriously wrong. So eventually I spoke to my teacher about it. The short of this long story is that as a child and well into my aldulthood as well I used to internalise my anger, never showed it. Yoga sort of brought it out and I was confronted with all this anger locked up in my muscles and body for years. After much needed work with my teacher and a psychologist the anger dissapated and I learned new ways to deal with my anger and also how to release it. We all have emotions, various ones, and yoga has the cunning ability to, if you are ready to confront those emotions, bring them up and to allow you to work through them in a safe way and with the help of compassionate people around you. As my teacher explained, yoga stirs the water and when water is disturbed all sorts of things rise from the bottom. Same with the emotions.
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Blessings & Om's Pandara _____________________________________________ http://www.oneyogalife.wordpress.com Live everyday as if it is a miracle - Einstein |
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| 12-01-2008, 06:28 PM | #29 |
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trimshát
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hertfordshire England
Posts: 33
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thanks to you all for the interesting replies.
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