non attachment

[justwannabe]

in my own experience I realiezed that I had become too attached to non attachment.

[Lars Rimböck]

So give it up.

Lars

[Pandara]

Tube,

Must say had a bit of a good laugh with this one, enjoyed reading it after my morning meditation, it add some sun to my day, thanx.

Anything I would say now would be further attachment, ditto.

[Mirjana]

Hello,

you can see a cheerful video (cca 1 min) on swamij.com, there is a link to youtube.com; favorites: "Attachement vs non attachment" from puppetji69

I don't know how to link it, I'm not to technical

[Bentinho Massaro]

YouTube - ATTACHMENT vs NON-ATTACHMENT

Here is your link Mirjana ^

Nice comment tubeseeker. The process of letting go trying to let go, or to be non-attached to trying to be non-attached, etc. is a familiar phenomenon in my experience as well. Its what makes the path so ironically tricky all the time. This contradiction, or rather tricky part of the path, shows just how transcendence is really something else. Something entirely not of the mind.

Thanks for sharing.

Ps. Here is a bit I wrote as a commentary on the yoga sutras. On the part that is all about non-attachment:
Yoga Sutras of Patajali #1.12-1.16: Non-attachment

[Hubert]

Non attachment is what it says. Non-attachment. It doesn't mean total rejection, elimination. In fact it is embracing life without desire. You feel pleasure, but you let it pass. Do not attach. This way no attachment is grown, no fear from losing pleasure, no anxiety in waiting for pleasure.
You can enjoy, but let untouched by desire. You can give without worrying if you get anything back. You can accept withour being bound by it. You can live your life fully, and not be the slave of it.
Non attachment is a positive thing. Any pleasure, any action is a gift to yourself, a new thing, a new experience.
We must learn to find peace and joy in letting things go as they come. Not evading them, but having them come through and pass as they come.

[Mirjana]

Thank Bentinho, nice...

[justwannabe]

thanks for adding your thougts

Hubert, in particular I found your post to shed a different light/angle that I had not thought of before, I kind of attached to it
thanks
seeker

[smstout19]

I know exactly what you mean! Striving to be an independent person with my own separate interests, finances, hobbies was great until I realized I had become too disconnected from the people I love the most. But how does one achieve non-attachment and still experience love in it’s deepest form? I believe it’s a never-ending challenge. I’m allowing myself to feel whatever I'm feeling and wanting now – while continuing to strive for a healthy balance.

[Hubert]

It depends what do you think love to be in it's deepest form ?

[smstout19]

I believe the deepest form of love can be described as wanting the best for another person. Such as the love between a parent and child, a couple, siblings, friends, etc. Depending on what is needed at a particular time, this may mean strengthening a bond without becoming attached to a result (purely enjoying what is) or working toward detaching oneself enough to set someone free - if that is what they truly desire. Wouldn't it be great if everyone could actually DO this?

[Bentinho Massaro]

Love in its deepest form has no form.

[Hubert]

Originally Posted by smstout19

I believe the deepest form of love can be described as wanting the best for another person. Such as the love between a parent and child, a couple, siblings, friends, etc. Depending on what is needed at a particular time, this may mean strengthening a bond without becoming attached to a result (purely enjoying what is) or working toward detaching oneself enough to set someone free - if that is what they truly desire. Wouldn't it be great if everyone could actually DO this?

I understand where you are coming from, but, and there is a big but here; can we know for sure what is good for another ? Trying to set someone free, or helping someone might actually reduce their freedom.
Also you use the word, bond. Believe me, real love does not have a bonding effect. It has a freeing, liberating effect. How can you be free if you are bound ?
Some measure love by the strenght of the bond, what is just another name for attachment. This is where your confusion has it's root. Because most of the time we measure our love by the strenght of the attachment, we cannot imagine love without attachment, we think if there is no attachment, there is no love. But non-attachment does not mean you don't care or feel for the other. You do what you do, freely, by your own will, and not by the impulse of the attachment, not from the fear of losing it, but because you are rich in love, and you serve others freely. Non-attachment actually gives you a freedom what makes possible to love more and more people, virtually anyone you meet. You cannot love a lot of people if you are attached to them as these attachmenst will work against each other and ultimatley your freedom is reduced to nothing. You ultimatley become chained. We realize that, and that's why we do not love every stranger we meet. We just love those who are around us. This is human love. Divine love is equal to all, no attachments. Understanding, care, help are all done in the light of this love.
We are capable of this divine love in the moment than we do not attach anymore.
Love is the same if not more powerful, but the chains are broken.

[smstout19]

Hubert, you appear to have taken my use of the term “strengthening a bond” a bit too literally. For many, striving for non-attachment can be a lifetime objective. In reality, our society is full of individuals with addictions, emotional baggage and “isms.” And this concept can be very difficult, if not impossible, for some to grasp. I believe a person must possess a great deal of confidence and tremendous self-respect in order to experience love in this way. I will admit, however, that I have been able to practice non-attachment with both of my nearly-adult sons and it is quite liberating. It's good to have goals!


On a side note - I just watched the Puppetji video. Loved it!
YouTube - ATTACHMENT vs NON-ATTACHMENT

[Hubert]

I did not want to sound patronizing ... you are older than me and you are a woman. So I have double respect for you, as you have much more life experience, and because women naturally are better in giving themselves fully in any relationship. I have to thank so much to the women of my life, in fact they made me who I am, if I wanted to be better it was only for them, all the time.
My involment into non-attachment isn't a mental game though. It was and is a survival tool. It is the only way I think to avoid pain and suffering, and I am afraid of pain and suffering. Perhaps I am a coward. I have to give this some thought ...

[smstout19]

Thanks Hubert! I’m here to learn and share – aiming for copious shares of both! I really enjoy discussions that make me dig deeper. And this one most certainly does that!

[Fin]

Originally Posted by Hubert

... I am afraid of pain and suffering. ...

Hubert,

fear is something i am working on a lot these days...

fear is the identifying the self with the body. Once I meditate on this, fear seems to dissipate, not completely gone, just less...
Love,
Fin

[Lars Rimböck]

To be connected is the meaning of Yoga and it it means to be connected to all that is, but this is another thing than attachment, which ignores completly the Time factor of the things in the material world.
Provided we meet a wonderfull girl or boy an fall in love. Than we get attached and want to hold the love for ever. We start planning the next 50 years or so, we start thinking what will happen if the loved person runs away with somebody else and so on. The connection rigth here rigth now is gone all of a sudden, because future is no more than phantasie.
So to be connected and to be attached are to completely different things.
All the best
Lars

[Nichole]

Lars, Thank you for the important reminder that attachment is function of time.



*

[Hubert]

Originally Posted by Fin

Hubert,

fear is something i am working on a lot these days...

fear is the identifying the self with the body. Once I meditate on this, fear seems to dissipate, not completely gone, just less...
Love,
Fin

I am not afraid of physical pain and suffering, one cannot escape them totally. But I am afraid of the pain and suffering caused by my own weakness, I am afraid of failure in living the right way, to not hurt anyone, including myself, as I am sure that every time I lack the strenght, or will to do what is right, I hurt not just myself but the world too.
I am very much afraid of my dark side, (the heritage of the past) what makes me do things I know are wrong, but I like them too much, than after it I am very sorry that I have failed so miserably.
I fail so many times every day ... through words, and deeds, and by lack of awarness. Yes, forgivness ... this makes it possible to get up again, but the pain of the wound is there. It is the ego what is afraid, I guess.

[Lars Rimböck]

Dear Hubert

Don`t be afraid! Since we are learning out of every mistake we arer doing, there is something good in them.
It is enough to live with the deep urge to be non violent one day and to go on moving towards it.
Tapas is meant to try giving up things we like to much. And if we fail we can try again and again, till we understood whatever there was to learn for us.
If you start loving and acepting even your dark side`s might discover even they are of some good.
Since we will never understand the divine leelas it seems we have to accept every thing that happens and continue to follow the path of yoga in oder one or an other day to be free.
Yes it is the Ego which is afraid because it wants to continue to be the boss in pour live instead of surrendering to the divine.
All the best
Lars

[Fin]

Originally Posted by Hubert

I am very much afraid of my dark side, (the heritage of the past) what makes me do things I know are wrong, but I like them too much, than after it I am very sorry that I have failed so miserably.
I fail so many times every day ... through words, and deeds, and by lack of awarness. Yes, forgivness ... this makes it possible to get up again, but the pain of the wound is there. It is the ego what is afraid, I guess.

Dear Hubert,

What is fearlessness? The only person endowed with the property of fearlessness is an individual which has cast aside the garment we call the body, that person as a free spirit can only experience bliss, since all pain & suffering comes from attachment first wth the body then via the body to other experiences.
In deep mediation free of the vasicilations (vrittis) of the mind only bliss is experienced. In my humble experience this experience is always too brief as mind/samsakars (ego) pulls you back into the body.

It appears that we must experience our earthly journey via the physical body. The ego does a good job of keeping us in the physical body but fear is intractably linked with the ego.
The body a gross representation also houses the ego.
So when the ego is threatened then fear develops. We are programmed to run away from fear. Those who run away from fear are forced to experience it as chronic ailments often very painful. I suffered from many very painful Chronic ailments (I was a master at suppressing fear). Those who allow fear its full expression dispels it.

You see, Hubert, we are drawn to pleasure which often leads to pain. I don’t think either pleasure or pain are a problem. The problem is that both create a mental imbalance which pulls us away from our pure consciousness, the bliss we sporadically experience in deep meditation.

Suppress nothing allow all thoughts, ask always how can I make this experience satvic. If thoughts or actions cause mental imbalance (fear) then that activity is not satvic. Allow guidance from your higher self to move to a more satvic state.

In time as you move from the Pita stage of your life to the Vata a lot of the urges will vanish anyway…

Sorry for the ramble, hope it helps.
Love
Fin

[jezheath]

Originally Posted by Hubert

I am not afraid of physical pain and suffering, one cannot escape them totally. But I am afraid of the pain and suffering caused by my own weakness, I am afraid of failure in living the right way, to not hurt anyone, including myself, as I am sure that every time I lack the strenght, or will to do what is right, I hurt not just myself but the world too.
I am very much afraid of my dark side, (the heritage of the past) what makes me do things I know are wrong, but I like them too much, than after it I am very sorry that I have failed so miserably.
I fail so many times every day ... through words, and deeds, and by lack of awarness. Yes, forgivness ... this makes it possible to get up again, but the pain of the wound is there. It is the ego what is afraid, I guess.

Dear Hubert,

I don't know you apart from your posts in this thread, (and I'm no psychologist) but you seem very "attached" to this concept of fear and pain.

But why focus on these negative aspects? Focusing on the positive seems more healthy - what little things can I do in this moment / day to make myself and others happier, the world nicer, friendlier, more considerate etc.

But either way, the positive or the negative, if you over-think it, it will consume you - attachment perhaps. Rather, making the positive choice for the small decisions as they are presented seems more natural and spontaneous - less attached.

Namaste

Jez

[smstout19]

Such great feedback! I always learn something here and for that I am grateful.

After reading the last two responses to Hubert, I definitely agree with JezHealth about overthinking and overanalyzing. Sometimes we can get into life patterns and “dances” with ourselves and others that, over time, begin to resemble self-destructive habits. Perhaps these patterns arose from emotional or physical abuse, a survival instinct or they are part of a person’s genetic makeup. The best way to overcome this kind of destructive inner dialogue is by CHOOSING to make positive changes in ourselves and moving forward one step at a time. For example, when a negative thought begins to take over, make a conscious choice to shut it down by choosing a more positive thought to replace it. You can literally “flip the switch” yourself. This may sound oversimplified but I assure you it works. Experiencing grief and sadness is a normal part of human existence. However, overindulging fear and negativity creates more of the same. Begin by replacing bad thoughts with good - over and over again - and this will actually create a chemical change in your brain. And after awhile it becomes a way of life.

You may (or may not) find this article helpful: How to Cure 'Destructive Emotions' -- Beliefnet.com


It is also important to pay close attention to your diet. Also, do you take multivitamins and/or supplements? Many people are magnesium deficient. Stress (and too much calcium) depletes our magnesium as we age. Just some things to consider...

[Hubert]

This begins to remind me the lamentation of Job and the wisdom of his friends.

Thank you for your encouraging oughts ... trying to present my situation in detail made me realize what I need. Prioritizing tasks, do the lesser harm, get on business, break enchaining habits, withdraw a little from professional activity.

Thanks again.

[moth]

Namaste, forum friends!

See? I'm practicing niceness.

I can't really respond to the "non-attachment" part of this thread, because I don't understand what that means yet. But, smstout19's post above mentioned changing our "inner dialogue" which also came up in the dark/light thread. I would guess this is something most here have already learned how to do, but I'm learning it right now. Changing the inside negativity to a more positive outlook is not easy when it's so deeply ingrained, is your "normal" mode of interacting with the world, and has been "you" for your entire life. That's a lot of rearranging and redirecting and restraining of thoughts. I try to get the words love, kind