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Old 10-19-2007, 11:08 AM   #1
Pandara
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Opinion versus Judgement

Had a question today and although we came to an understanding about it, I would like to post it here to hear different views as well, because I think it can be explored.

When is a statement you make an opinion and when is it a judgement?

Most yogis I know are very careful not to sound judgemental when they say something or when they are asked to comment on an issue.

So how do we know that we are just having an opinion then? Or, worst we may think we have an opinion, but can be viewed as a judgement by the other person.

Would appreciate any views and thoughts on this.
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Old 10-19-2007, 11:57 AM   #2
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Hello Pandara,

it is a good question. I think it all depends on your emotional state. If something upset you or make you angry, that's judgment. And if you have a statement and stay calm and neutral inside than it is an opinion. You can take an action to improve something if your opinion is that it needs an improvement but with a calm attitude. So I would say judgment is an opinion with an emotion.

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Old 10-19-2007, 12:07 PM   #3
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If I could articulate it better than my teacher, I would.
Since I cannot, a link.

Aadil Palkhivala on Strength of Mind

It addresses Judgement versus Discernement (rather than opinion) but I believe it will stimulate the process appropriately.

For me, judgement is when we take observation and make conclusion. This is "bad" that is "good". My yoga is "good". Your yoga is "bad". Those are judgements.

For us, as teachers, it has to be more than trying not to "sound" judgemental. The state of the word flows from the state of the thought. It is only when we can be in a place of non-judgement that it authentically radiates outward. Nothing wrong with a bit of control as we work on it but it must be looked at honestly and transformed from the inside out.

To me, it does not fluxuate relative to emotional states. I can be angry and not be judgemental. Likewise I can be calm and incredibly judgemental (which might be synonymous with pretention or the white shadow).
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Old 10-19-2007, 12:44 PM   #4
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my opinion on this

opinions are given humbly with humility and from the heart
my opinion, the world may be on a perfect path

judgements are given with the egos sense of superiority
my judgement, the world needs to change paths, to the path I say is better


there is more to it, yes, but that is where I start to discern the two.

just thoughts
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Old 10-20-2007, 06:37 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by tubeseeker View Post
opinions are given humbly with humility and from the heart

judgements are given with the egos sense of superiority

seeker
thank you for these few words that clarify a lot for me
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Old 10-20-2007, 07:20 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by lavina View Post
thank you for these few words that clarify a lot for me
the ego will say I deserve this complement

the heart will say if you wish to thank me, please also thank the ones who have taught me this

lavina, you are very welcome my friend
enjoy your journey
seeker
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:23 AM   #7
Hubert
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You are all wrong, in my opinion.

... sometimes we are judgemental, than we add "in my opinion", in order to not appear too harsh, to appear better.
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:38 AM   #8
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Opinion is isolated: Chocolate ice cream (Hondas, jazz, Islam) is the best.
Judgement is interactive: Your choice of vanilla (spouse, religious avocation, car, etc) is wrong (inferior, etc).
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Old 10-21-2007, 01:03 PM   #9
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Opinion carries within the possibilty of being wrong, or a personal preference, or a stance of waiting for more input. Opinion carries a ceirtan lack of importance. Opinions accept other opinions, but judgments do not accept other judgements. A judgement has a finality, a choice has been made, and the responsability to act accordingly. Judgments are made when we are sure we are right. Sound judgement, discernment are the same. Without judgement noone could live. Opinions are a luxury, a mundane triviality.

I think, concerning ourselves, we must make all efforts to judge and to act accordingly. Concerning others we might have opinions, but let them be their own judge.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:38 AM   #10
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Thank You

Dear All,

Thank you to each and evryone who has taken the time to express her/his view/opinion/judgement here. I appreciate the time and the responses, they were indeed very good and has added tremendously to my own discussion on the topic.

With Love and Light.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandara View Post
Had a question today and although we came to an understanding about it, I would like to post it here to hear different views as well, because I think it can be explored.

When is a statement you make an opinion and when is it a judgement?

Most yogis I know are very careful not to sound judgemental when they say something or when they are asked to comment on an issue.

So how do we know that we are just having an opinion then? Or, worst we may think we have an opinion, but can be viewed as a judgement by the other person.

Would appreciate any views and thoughts on this.
Opinions are lies; judgements projections...
i like to hear opinions...and judgements...
my view becomes an opinion, and when i get to know you better, a judgement....does it really make a difference...? does it really matter when...
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:07 AM   #12
Bentinho Massaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandara View Post
When is a statement you make an opinion and when is it a judgement?

Most yogis I know are very careful not to sound judgemental when they say something or when they are asked to comment on an issue.

So how do we know that we are just having an opinion then? Or, worst we may think we have an opinion, but can be viewed as a judgement by the other person.

Would appreciate any views and thoughts on this.
Wise Pandara,

I would prefer the word discrimination instead of opinion. Not discrimination in the sense of racism, but in the purest sense of the word:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Discrimination originates from the Latin word: discrīmināre
Which means to distinguish between.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that each yogi, all of us, are searching for attaining the highest possible sense of discrimination. When we are capable of discriminating between consciousness and matter, or: between Purusha(or brahman) and Prakriti, we attain salvation through the highest form of vairagya (non-attachment) - Yoga Sutras.

An Opinion, is still a point of view from within the mind. It is something the mind believes or thinks about something. It is a position the mind takes on; a mental stand. Opinion and judgement are one and the same in my opinion .

So when we talk about the difference between opinion and judgement, I see none. When we talk about the difference between the ability of discrimination, or: intellect/buddhi and opinion/judgement, I see a clear distinction. I shall share my view below:

I can be brief by saying: opinion/judgement comes from the egoistic mind while discrimination comes from the higher mental body, the intellect; Buddhi. But more profoundly, I would like to state that discrimination comes from experiencing a hightened state of consciousness. The purer you are, that means; the more conscious you are, the clearer your perspective on things is. You start to see things as they are. Hereby you acquire the ability to distinguish true from false, or truth from maya; illusion. Where an opinion makes you distinguish between right and wrong, which is utterly pointless.

Discrimination and opinion may look alike in form, because they both distinguish between things, but if you picture a cross like this: + : Opinion is the horizontal differentiation and discrimination is the vertical discernment; the latter takes you to new depths.

Opinion is superficial: Changing your mental opinion on things only makes you 'grow' laterally. It makes you fool around on the same level you are already on; no real change or transformation takes place. While highering your state of consciousness and through that process enlightening your buddhi (intellect, the higher mental body) and increasing your insight in what is true and what not; makes you grow in depth, into new dimensions, penetrating reality.

So if nothing else, you may remember this about my view if you will:
Opinion/judgement = distinguishing between right and wrong
Discrimination = distinguishing between truth and illusion

The latter (discrimination) is most useful for teachers; they can address what they see clearly to their students and help them progress truly. Opinion will make you judge your students as being right or wrong in their statement, yogic practice or other actions, while discrimination makes you see what is going on behind the scenes in that particular student. It makes you not only see what their mental stand is, but more importantly; why it is their mental stand and from which dimension it comes from; what part of the students being is active in believing that mental opinion.

The higher your discrimination, the more capable you become of piercing through your students being; you can penetrate his very being with your sharp perception. This allows you for true understanding and helping the student. Not by reacting to the content of his words, because content = opinion, but by reacting to the systems that are active behind the scenes; behind the opinions. This causes immediate and true transformation, instead of a continuation of the games played by the ego.

But what the heck, this is all just my opinion, or.. may it be my ability to discriminate? Who knows.

Love,
B.
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Last edited by Bentinho Massaro; 10-24-2007 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 10-20-2010, 05:11 PM   #13
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A judgment is as a result of a collection of evidence that points to a conclusion which is then expressed in some way.The judgment can be made by an individual or a group or a mass.

An opinion is subjective. If a person has an opinion they are implying it is their idea they are expressing and are leaving it open for others to express their idea
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Old 10-20-2010, 05:23 PM   #14
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A judgment is as a result of a collection of evidence that points to a conclusion which is then expressed in some way.The judgment can be made by an individual or a group or a mass.

An opinion is subjective. If a person has an opinion they are implying it is their idea they are expressing and are leaving it open for others to express their idea




Pandara wrote .....Most yogis I know are very careful not to sound judgmental when they say something or when they are asked to comment on an issue

This might be because they haven't gathered the evidence to be judgmental.
The problem they are presented with may not give sufficient evidence (or time to ) to reach a certain conclusion, hence the caution.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:39 AM   #15
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Karen, I knew one forum, where a person, who resurrected the oldest thread, got a prize. If such tradition was here, you probably would get one.
Anyway, the subject is interesting, so thank you.
It shows us how often words are not true because of different meanings which they have in our minds.
My view on this: judgment is a type of opinion, which is categoric.
Usually we don`t have enough evidences (if it`s possible at all, while operating words), so how can we be categoric?
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:06 AM   #16
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But
Quote:
judgmental
is an attitude based on a judgement of a persons conduct. So the definition of judgment above is correct in that it's a collection of evidence. In that context it is a noun. Judgmental is an adjective which describes the noun. Am I splitting hairs or what?????? But judgmental is a negative term that usually means you judge harshly. I can't think of a way to use judgmental nicely. Maybe that's what Pandara was trying to get at. Opinions don't need to be harsh. Judgement need not be harsh, but judgmental is.

And yes, Sasha, Kareng does get the prize! I guess we come in second and third!
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:08 PM   #17
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lol ..Sasha n Lotusgirl...and Yes David, where are our prizes!! David should Post a picture of a Skeleton in a coffin, a large one for me, and graded smaller ones for Sasha and Lotusgirl. Suggestions welcome



Perhaps judgmental is an accusation aimed from an opinion of a person that expresses it towards another because the person aiming it hasn't got the evidence that the person who made the judgment has and therefore accuses the person who has reached their judgment of being judgmental...lol lol lol
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:39 PM   #18
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And now the question is, "Who judges the judge whose judgment was judgmental regarding the judges judgment? LOL
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:22 PM   #19
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I agree with Bentinho's 'opinion' but would state it slightly differently. Opinion and judgment are 'siblings' since they are born out of the same thinking process; but they are not strictly 'one and the same thing'. Human thinking requires to make a subjective judgment all the time, without which it cannot survive a constant confrontation with the 'pairs of opposites'. Even though 'judgmental' sounds harsh, each thought is based on many choices and judgments. But that's about the contents.

Pandara's intended question in calling it 'opinion versus judgment' seems to be about the method of delivery. Opinion is delivered by keeping the thinking process 'open' while judgment is delivered by closing it. Opinion appears delivered with humility and judgment with audacity. But, at the same time, delivery of an opinion is tentative and taking lesser risk than committing to a position with a judgment, with finality.

The alleged use of more evidence in judgment gives it a false air of objectivity, but the thinking process keeps it very much subjective. A sound judgment only means there are more opinions aligned with it. Yes, discrimination and discernment are the progressive abilities. But for that, one has to be ready to learn. 'To be (ready) or not to be' is the real question, in my opinion.
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:54 PM   #20
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Lotusgirl, lol lol

Suhas. Brilliant, can you expand a little on the last sentence, I dont quite follow that part.
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:33 PM   #21
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Is it saying that opinion allows learning and the other doesn't??
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:29 PM   #22
Suhas Tambe
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Karen,
In my opinion, an opinion or a judgment, though slightly different, is not the real conflict. The conflict is whether or not with either of them you remain open to other opinions and judgments, to learn.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:45 PM   #23
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Karen,
In my opinion, an opinion or a judgment, though slightly different, is not the real conflict. The conflict is whether or not with either of them you remain open to other opinions and judgments, to learn.
Ahh I see xx
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhas Tambe View Post
Pandara's intended question in calling it 'opinion versus judgment' seems to be about the method of delivery.
First of all, thank you to all who, even though it is an old thread, is putting some new life into it. Your insights are still much appreciated.

ST, what you say is very correct in above quote. Although this discussion happened in 2007, an insight that one of our group offered still remains with me and that is that the degree of ego involved in each is the difference. I don't say this is the ultimate insight, but it was significant for me at that time.
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:41 PM   #25
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Is it saying that opinion allows learning and the other doesn't??
Well said.!!!
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