Stubborn Student

[Pandara]

Dear Friends,

Some background: I teach three classes a week and people can attend as much as they like. When a student attends only one class a week, I expect of them to add another day or two at home after their first foundation year with me.

One particular student in my class only comes once a week and I can see that this student hasn't added an additional day or two of practice at home. This Student (which is with me for the past two years) now expects to do the more challenging asanas, such as headstand and shoulder stand, which the more diligent students do. When I told this student the other night that I feel the asanas are not appropriate for this student a huge tantrum and tears followed. This is not the first time this student have done this and I really don't know how to handle it further as I had a number of discussions with the student in the past, explaining why, but it seems nothing gets through.

Please some advice as this disruptive behaviour is something I need to nip in the butt now as I think it might totally get out of hand next time. Some of the other students complained the next day via email that they felt that this student totally disrupted their inner balance and harmony at that point. At this stage I would rather loose one student than a number of excellent students.

[suzuki15]

Originally Posted by Pandara

Dear Friends,

Some background: I teach three classes a week and people can attend as much as they like. When a student attends only one class a week, I expect of them to add another day or two at home after their first foundation year with me.

One particular student in my class only comes once a week and I can see that this student hasn't added an additional day or two of practice at home. This Student (which is with me for the past two years) now expects to do the more challenging asanas, such as headstand and shoulder stand, which the more diligent students do. When I told this student the other night that I feel the asanas are not appropriate for this student a huge tantrum and tears followed. This is not the first time this student have done this and I really don't know how to handle it further as I had a number of discussions with the student in the past, explaining why, but it seems nothing gets through.

Please some advice as this disruptive behaviour is something I need to nip in the butt now as I think it might totally get out of hand next time. Some of the other students complained the next day via email that they felt that this student totally disrupted their inner balance and harmony at that point. At this stage I would rather loose one student than a number of excellent students.

WoW that's pretty inappropriate and disrespectful. I'd tell the student that, and explain how it's not acceptable.

[Lorna Neuber]

This is a tricky one. How about dedicating one of the next sessions to asanas which prepare for inversions and let the student find out for herself how she's doing in them? It's more difficult to cheat yourself about you arm and shoulder strength than to, say, yank yourself deeper into twists, so she will probably realise her weakness.

It is of course also possible that she was upset about being told in front of the group (I am inferring this from the fact that some other students complained about the incident the next day). You could offer to teach her a few private lession to bring her up to the group's standard (she may not want to take you up on the offer but it demonstrates that you are interested in everyone's progress and welfare rather than in singling her out as a poor example for the group).

Certainly, as you have said yourself, safety is paramount, so all members of a group class have to be roughly at the same level. Otherwise you cannot safely teach them together.

Best of luck with this little project!

[Pandara]

- Dear suzuki, thanks for the reply, I agree it is disrespectfull, but I am one of those who rather let people discover their inappropriateness than to tell them straight in their face, I feel the lesson is more direct then. I am also afraid that it might lead to aggression and a confrontation in the class that might be more upsetting.

- Hi Lorna, yes, I have done a few sessions already where I prepare for inversions in the hope that this might get the message through, but it didn't. I think you might be right about telling this student in front of everybody. In defense I felt that I did do it with much compassion and tenderness, that's why the reaction was so much more surprising. I have already offered a few private session, but there was excuses every time from the student's side for not making it.

[Bentinho Massaro]

What about you just letting this student have the freedom to make mistakes like this? Let it get out of hand if that happens! What could happen? He/she won't kill anyone I presume, how out of hand can things really get?
Discover what your own fears/insecurities are about this (i.e. that his/her outburst results in an unbalanced class, or makes people leave.).

Because you know, society is just as uncontrolled as he/she is. And if we only control every tendency, manage everything that could go wrong, than the peace we would get from such an environment (or class) would be a conditional peace. Not one coming from a deeper understanding of the way things are.

I'd say:

1st of all, rest as you are Pandara and let all your personal thoughts/pov's/beliefs etc run wild as you remain still within, undistracted and don't believe in anything your mind has to say about the situation. Including thoughts like: "But I am responsible for them." which can always easily distract us. Then when you have found your freedom in this situation and you feel you are rooted in this inner smile of peace which allows for everything to unfold as it naturally and humanly and sometimes chaotically does, when you feel fully confident and have faith in the way of things resolving themselves, teach your next class like this and you will see everything that happens as a small society.

If you radiate this and even communicate this to your class, that one can learn much more from letting things be and not trying to control everything, than they will have much more peace with the situation I am sure and they will also have a deeper layer of challenge, provided by both the crazy student and yourself as a confident teacher who is able to rest beyond good and bad, pure and impure, right and wrong.

From there, if needed, you can be firm and decisive when it comes to making decisions or communicating something to the student. But first of all, just see this situation as a role-playing game of society on a small scale, and see that if all of you are not so tense about what is right and what is wrong, that things will take a magical appearance and resolve themselves in such a way that's best for everyone, even if someone makes the decision to leave your class, in the worst case scenario.

Just let loose and have faith beyond measure . From this arises unconditional love and still and complete understanding towards everyone in your class, including a crazy-ass student.

Love,
Bentinho.

[Pandara]

Hi Bentinho,

I hear you and yes I agree, my own fear of this student adding injury to herself and the concern of that injury is high at the moment. Let me see if I can let go of the mind concepts and allow this student to be her own teacher in this.

[mikesbytes]

Hi Pandara, as an instructor (not yoga), I'd say that the bottom line is safety.

[Bentinho Massaro]

Yes safety is 'important' to some degree, but Pandara ultimately cannot be responsible for the choices she decides to make. If, especially from this space of peace and faith, he tells her that it is simply not safe for her body to do these postures at this time and that he would not at all recommend it, then whatever choice she makes is hers to make. If not in your class, she will do it at home. Better to do it in class then at least she can get some instructions.

My previous posts was mostly referring to the emotional/disturbing side of your story and the impact it has on the class and on yourself.

Love,
Bentinho.

[Lorna Neuber]

Safety in inverted postures seems a different issue from, say, twanging a muscle in an overzealous twist, so I understand your concerns, Pandara. You could ask yourself what kind of class you prefer to lead, one where students conform to certain rules (like regular practice) so all can progress or one where everyone is welcome, at every level. Both types have their merits. The former type sounds a little schoolmarmy, but if people want to build on their experience of yoga, you've got to offer them different practices at different levels. Obvious. So it may emerge that your stubborn student is kind of in the wrong class, given that she seems perfectly happy going on as she always has.

[Alix]

Pandara, I recommend you take this student aside the next time they appear (do you have a little office?) and tell them their behaviour was inappropriate and it will not be tolerated again. If the behaviour happens again you will ask the student to leave class and refund their money. You need to be firm here. The student is not the only one at risk here. If you allow this student to do shoulder or headstand and a spinal injury occurs who do you suppose will be liable? There is no shame in maintaining harmony for the greater good.

[Pandara]

Safety is a big concern to be as I emphasize it constantly in my classes, I don't want to create the impression with the other regular students that I'm flaunting it with one student just because she gets upset when confronted about it. So, yes, I realise I'll have to be decisive in this coming week and do what I have to do.

Thanks to everybody who took the time to read it and reply, your wonderful and insightful replies are much appreciated, as well as giving me an opportunity to stand back and to realise that I have to take control, becasue as Alix rightly pointed out South Africa is catching up to the sueing-game fast.

[tina]

Pandora , in the class there's variations for asans , headstand can use wall support and shoulderstand can use planket support so that student can perform according to their standard, can this apply to her ?

U r really a very good teacher who's teaching with his heart to care how student feel

I was told about a story about a love sake student always follow teacher at the tail so scary that she's just like a shadow always behind teacher so be a teacher really not a small business.

[Techne]

B's context, as usual, is the free-ness of spirit and the self-ness of choices. It's a beautiful one, and I wish it were more prevalent in the rest of the world. Your student is a prime example of this lack -- she thinks she doesn't get to do headstand because you say, "no". She's not letting herself see that she has been saying "no" when she does not practice sufficiently. I'm familiar with this one, or rather with its other side: not being content with what I've said "yes" to. If it is part of your expectations of yourself as a teacher that you bring this up to her, you might help her catalog a bit what else she does with her time (and therefore what choices she has made.) But it's a big task, and there will be no fruit until she is tired of being frustrated and angry. (that is, if she's doing what I have done. It could be that I am projecting.)

ps -- because I'm an English language freak -- "nip it in the *bud*" is a botanical metaphor. Think roses and cut worms.

[victw]

Originally Posted by Pandara

At this stage I would rather loose one student than a number of excellent students.

What makes an excellent student?

[InnerAthlete]

Hello Pandara,

First there is the style of the teacher to consider in this. Ultimately I think you will have to follow the style for you, the things you have framed out for your students. And I know from reading you here for several years that you will find that amid the myriad of feedback we provide.

I do not state or mandate that my students do a home practice. HOWEVER, it is completely appropriate for them to do so, appropriate for me to assist in ANY way possible for the development, and I want them to be so moved that they practice at home with increasing frequency, dedication, and most of all joy. I mention home practice often, in a light and playful way, but in a way that conveys their practice has more colorful blossoms from a home practice.

I am clear with them, especially with regard to pranayama, that if they are not practicing the foundational breathing elements at home, in between classes, we simply cannot get to more advanced pranayama as their physiology will not be ready for it. And so we don't do it. I can see their doing (or not doing) in their practice and of course we teach people not poses so no matter what I want to teach I have to teach those in the room.

The outburst you mention is not, in my mind, classified as inappropriate. The student had a very real emotional experience and the fact that it was uncomfortable for others is once again part of our work. As for the harmony of the class, sure, I get that. However we do not live in a vacuum and life is not always free of odor, noise, heat, cold, or others in your face. So this to me is part of the practice. These things happen and we move right along, taking in "just another experience".

Are we so easily distracted that the slightest ripple in our expectation is appalling? If a student coughs in class everyone complains they couldn't do Savasana. Really? After five years of practice you can't focus in a passive pose due to a cough? Then I've failed you as a teacher.

Noise, outburst, traffic, smelly neighbors, slippery floors...these things are part of practice. We try to craft a more serene environment for practice BUT we live in the real world and our practice should surely prepare us for that living.

My suggestion
Continue to teach the group. Be as understanding and compassionate with the student you mention as you possibly can. We do not know what things are going on their life and so we must extend them every opportunity to learn, to grow, to explore, discover, and surrender.

If the student is not ready for a pose and you are going to do it with the rest of the class, do it, but modify that student without any fanfare. No lecture (unless it's to the entire group). Just tell them they will be working this way to strengthen until their body is ready for more.

In the meantime, consistently and playfully share with them the ways the body must be prepared for this or that so they will understand you are not making "in the moment" decisions but rather operating from a policy of safe practice that stems from your well of integrity.

gordon

[justwannabe]

Originally Posted by Pandara

Please some advice as this disruptive behaviour is something I need to nip in the butt now as I think it might totally get out of hand next time. Some of the other students complained the next day via email that they felt that this student totally disrupted their inner balance and harmony at that point. At this stage I would rather loose one student than a number of excellent students.

seems like a great oppurtunity for the other students to expand in their inner balance. Buhda said "chaos is inherent in all compounded things, strive on with dilligence"
From personal experience, I work with "autistic" children. They make noise all day long sometimes, it does not register anymore nor phase me.

How would I handle it? I would tell the other students it is a great oppurtunity to let go, let go of judgements, annoyances, etc... Maybe ask them why it bothers them and can they learn to let it go, one of the main points of yoga, yes?. As far as the student, I would keep telling them the same thing and it is up to that student to decide whether or not to let it register. He may cry, have outburst, etc.... i would try to stand my ground in what I believe by stating matter of factly and compassionately, hopefully believing that I am doing th best I can.

From what I see of you, I believe you to be a good teacher. You are aware that he may hurt himself and are looking out for his best interest, even though what you may have to say hurts his feelings. Sometimes it is just that way.

your doing great, "strive on with dilligence brother"
just my view of it
Brother Neil

[Alix]

InnerAthlete, once more I am humbled by the wisdom of your words.

Pandara, please read carefully what Gordon suggests, I believe he has hit the nail on the head.

[justwannabe]

Originally Posted by Alix

InnerAthlete, once more I am humbled by the wisdom of your words.

Pandara, please read carefully what Gordon suggests, I believe he has hit the nail on the head.

Yes, what a great reply by IA, compassionate and lite/light

with love
brother Neil

[Pandara]

Originally Posted by Alix

InnerAthlete, once more I am humbled by the wisdom of your words.

Pandara, please read carefully what Gordon suggests, I believe he has hit the nail on the head.

Ditto, again I know now why I have posed that question here. Thanks to everybody for great replies and suggestions and your compassion in answering me, it all adds and helps a lot in moving this particular student forward in future.

Blessings to all.

PS. Techne, thanks for pointing the nip in the bud thing out, just another second language thing, had a bit of a giggle as I realised the difference between bud/butt.

[lashannasmall]

I am late with my response but I do think it depends on the teaching style and the school of thought. What the intention of the teacher was in the instructions given. There was a day in time when a yoga student was under the strict guidance of a "guru" who watched their development and gave them what they felt they needed and the students didn't question this. Not that I am saying things should go back to this style, but again it depends on the teachers reasons for not giving the student a pose.

I am a student of Ashtanga yoga as taught by Sri K Pattabhi Jois. When you learn it Mysore style, the teacher watches your development and gives you new poses based on your dedication, specific physical needs, and mastery of previous asanas.

It is not uncommon for an Ashtanga teacher not to give a student additional postures when they cannot commit to a consistent practice. I have even heard of teachers refusing to teach students who could not commit to consistent practice. It wasn't because they were trying to punish the student, it was because they felt that dedication is an essential part of learning yoga and that the student was not ready for the practice if they could not be consistent.

Like other people have said, I think that Pandara does have to look at the real reason why she does not want this student to do the posture and if safely is paramount for her students then maybe that person does not need to be in the class. There are plenty of other teachers out there who may fit her personality that will take her on.

[Hubert]

Don't worry Pandara. We kick bud !

[David]

I was your student. Hell, I probably still am in many ways and just don't realize it.

When I first began yoga, I was driven by an enormous ego and a past that shaped how I performed my asana. "No pain, no gain" was my mantra. And holy crap was I unhealthy. I was dead on the inside.

Lucky for me I had a teacher who was incredibly patient with me and showed me what true love is. She held up a mirror so that I could see who I was and the damage my actions were causing because all the words in the world would not reveal such truths; I had to connect to it myself.

Be the mirror. How you would be the mirror for the student is the hard part and I have no answers for you there.

[justwannabe]

Originally Posted by David

I was your student. Hell, I probably still am in many ways and just don't realize it.

When I first began yoga, I was driven by an enormous ego and a past that shaped how I performed my asana. "No pain, no gain" was my mantra. And holy crap was I unhealthy. I was dead on the inside.

Lucky for me I had a teacher who was incredibly patient with me and showed me what true love is. She held up a mirror so that I could see who I was and the damage my actions were causing because all the words in the world would not reveal such truths; I had to connect to it myself.

Be the mirror. How you would be the mirror for the student is the hard part and I have no answers for you there.

I could cosign this

[A Better Me]

Without reading all the other replies, these words come to mind......"you are welcome to come to class if you are able to respect the other people in the classroom. " This behavior sounds very disrespectful to both you and the others Pandara. Every day on our mats is different and focusing on the abilities of the others totally defeats the purpose of coming to our mats. A difficult situation for sure, but after 2 years kind words don't seem to be doing the job.
Best of luck!

[Pandara]

Dear All,

A few weeks have now passed since my first post here. Said student didn't arrive for class in the week after this post. However, she did pitched for class last week. Fortunately very early and we had a good chat before any of the other people arrived.

A few things transpired from that:

I explained to her how I was taught by my teacher and that this style demands a slow progression and stability in other asanas before I can move the student to more challenging asanas.

Secondly I asked her to give me a chance to teach her properly and part of that is patience and compassion towards her own body from her side. She did explain that she comes from a fiercely competitive house and that it is difficult for her not to be in competition with everybody else in the class including me as teacher. We made this a challenge for her to tone the competitiveness down a little and to rather find that which inspires her, in other words not what her parents wanted her to be, but what would she like to be, how would she like to be. It turned out not so competitive. I think this is going to be a huge field of evolution for her in the months to come.

During the class she was much more co-operative and willing to give me a chance until I could get to her and help her to modify her asana to suit her body and level of flexibility.

So overall I think all went well, I think the fact that I was calm and understanding helped her a lot and I look forward to move her forward in her practice. I think our one-to-one session which was totally unplanned and just happened was the solution here.

Thanks again to all for your replies, trust that my reply my help you.

[Techne]

He, he! That's great!!!

[Lorna Neuber]

Brilliant. So (once again...) the solution lies in taking your heart in your hands and speaking your truth, gently but clearly.

[justwannabe]

your the man brother

[tina]

good , Pandara finally you have moved a hard rock with your soft heart

[Prascina]

A true teacher is always guided by the divinity within to show the path of getting the field ready by the practice of different steps of yoga in co-ordination as to sow the seed of realisation and liberation.