Subtle Bodies - Kosha

[Fin]

Does a Tree have subtle bodies (Kosha's)?

Is it possible to "see" them?

[Pandara]

Hi,

Apart from perceiving the denser energetic forms of things on earth, it is important to realise that most of us just see that. However through training and adjusting your own inner perception you can perceive the subtle forms of any thing you want to, even a brick. My question is, why would you specifically want to see those of trees?

[InnerAthlete]

Does a tree have a soul?

[Pandara]

Dear Innerathlete,

I would like to think so yes, or at least something similar, if not a soul as we understand it, but perhaps something different.

[Nichole]

Fin,
You can also experience the tree on each of your subtle bodies.
Are you perceiving the tree's koshas for yourself, or just curious?


With love and respect,

[InnerAthlete]

Is it then possible to reincarnate as a rhododendron, assuming that one believes in reincarnation (in the first place) of course???

Originally Posted by Pandara

Dear Innerathlete,

I would like to think so yes, or at least something similar, if not a soul as we understand it, but perhaps something different.

[Pandara]

Dear Innerathlete,

The law of Reincarnation doesn't necessarily subscribe to the law of the transmigration of the soul, but if you belief in reincarnation and the transmigration of the soul, then yes, you can reincarnate as a beautiful rhododendron.

[InnerAthlete]

...then I am misinformed.

I was under the impression that it is, in fact, the soul which seeks another vessel and this is reincarnation. In that context it would seem the law of reincarnation is synonymous with transmigration (of the soul)

Interesting. Thank you for sharing Pandara.

[Fin]

Nichole,
I have a large old Walnut tree in my garden.
It is a happy tree, & some of its happiness rubs off on me, I often greet it.
The tree is appearing in my dreams a lot recently.
More recently I perceive different colour around it, shades of purple & red.
Do the colours represent its Chakras or its Koshas?

Nichole, have you noticed anything similar?

Thank you for your insight Nichole, it is possible i am experiencing the Tree on MY different subtle bodies? (An extension of my Puja, perhaps.)

Namaste,
Fin

[Hubert]

Trees, and all plants have only physical and vital bodies, annamaya and pranayama kosha. They lack "astral" or mental bodies -manamaya kosha. Therefore they are always in a deep dream like state. Animals next to these former two bodies also have manamaya kosha, but they lack vijnamaya kosha, or body of wisdom. As I learnt by studying the spiritual science of antrophosophy, animals do not have egos. (Ego is manifestation of vijnamaya kosha.) They more likely have a collective consciusness, and the actions of this consciusness are known to us as instincts.
What is important to realize here is that we have these bodies in common with creatures of other reigns. When we are in deep sleep, the manamaya and higher koshas are withdrawn from the two lower ones, practically we leave our physical and vital bodies while we sleep. In this state the physical and vital bodies form something close to a plant, this is also the cause why we sometimes call people in deep coma vegetables.
The vital and physical bodies do not normally separate, only in death, or partially in close to death situations.

[Hubert]

Originally Posted by Pandara

Dear Innerathlete,

The law of Reincarnation doesn't necessarily subscribe to the law of the transmigration of the soul, but if you belief in reincarnation and the transmigration of the soul, then yes, you can reincarnate as a beautiful rhododendron.

In former stages of evolution this was possible, as it was also possible to reincarnate as a god (an inhabitant of brahma loka).
As I learnt, these days it is only possible to reincarnate a human.
Reincarnation was a slower process back in time (ten thousands of years could pass between two incarnations), today this process is much faster, depends also on the personal development of the soul, but mainly on the criteria that the world must change in order to make possible new experinces. This might mean something between a few centuries, and a few decades. (I think that instant reincarnations like the one of the dalai-lama's are exceptions)

[yogaforbliss]

Hubert describes it perfectly. As it has been said

"God sleeps in stone, wakes in plants, moves in animals and thinks in man"

Also, interestingly the oldest are stones (mountains), next trees (redwood, peepul), then animals (tortoise, eagle) and man is the youngest.

In terms of re-incarnation, the shastras say that if man accumulates too much sanchita karma he will be re-born as an animal to exhaust the karmas. Animals do not accumulate any aagami karmas because they do not have free will like us. A tiger is pre-programmed to kill and eat deer.

[markbee]

Namaste,

Answering to question if tree has a soul.
According to Vedic knowledge soul is energy of life. If something has the symptoms of life that means that there is soul inside. Some of symtoms of life: growing, reproducing, reacting to stimulus and so on. More on it on web pages in my signature.

Om Hari Om,
Mark

[Hubert]

The mineral world is also made up of "beings". But to further dwell on this would take us too far from the subject of this thread.
In fact there is no such thing as lifeless matter, this notion is just the result of a short sighted "materialist" science based on dry sensorial experiences.

[Pandara]

Dear All,

Indeed to exhaust all the possibilities and arguments between the relationship of reincarnation and transmigration would take us forever. My own understanding of reincarnation and transmigration only changed recently after reading a few Buddhist ideas on this issue (Buddhist philosophy subscbribes to reincarnation and rebirth) which brought me to another understanding of transmigration.

Basically I understand it as follow now: Yes there was a time when a soul could transmigrate between different life forms, but it seems that it has passed. Now it seems to be a question of free will rather than you have to. I also understand from various other texts and books that our planet has reached another level of planetary consciousness (and we see the changes on a daily basis) therefore some of the old Natural Laws are also busy changing. So it seems there is a lot of confusion at the moment about these Laws as there are no clear indication yet as to how they will further change, time will tell only.

Personally I do not belief that you can turn back once you have reached the human stage of consciousness, the consciousness of plants, animals or minerals is just too low on a vibratory level. I belief in reincarnation, but belief also that although transmigration do exist in special circumstances, it is not so readily available to a soul as we would like to think. However, I do belief we still have the innate possibility within us to connect on different levels with life around us. This we can explain with various philosophies, it is not important, what is important form me is the realisation that ALL IS ONE, and that One-ness can be experienced with a little effort.

[Bentinho Massaro]

What a nice discussion on such interesting material. This is the reason why I like decent forums.

I think it all depends on your current level of consciousness: The amount of free will you have in between incarnations depends on your level of consciousness in life and how conscious you remain when you die. If you are in fact free, or have a high level of consciousness, you can choose to do or not do, incarnate or not incarnate, in anything you want. As long as we are not Jivan Muktas yet (completely liberated souls) we have to incarnate sooner or later, but the choices and free will increases the more advanced we are. Just like our choices and free will increases in this life when we grow in this incarnation.

Now if you would like to be incarnated in a lower density evolutionary being/entity/life-form: like an animal or even a plant or a rock, there would probably be some complications to overcome, because certain bodies should be left out of your incarnation, but still be tight to your consciousness, yet not bound and connected to the form of your incarnation. But the statement that there are complications is just my guess. this is detailed and complicated stuff and I will not claim to know these details. I also think they vary a ton, depending on the individual. I do not believe though, that it is impossible. In fact, when we are not conscious in death, and there is a decent amount of karma pointing us into the direction of a lower evolutionary (life-) form, we will automatically incarnate into it. Like someone said before me in this thread.

So what if we lack that certain level of consciousness and hence the free will?: It is my belief that we are then bound completely by our karma accumulated over all lifes. If we are very low on consciousnes in death, much like as if we are asleep, then going from one incarnation to the next is an automatic process, coordinated not by you, but fully by the law of karma which is still very much your chief at that point. I like to see it like this: If you are a victim of the mind in this life, right here and right now, if you are being toyed with and dragged around from one emotion into another, from one thought-form in the next, without any decent control, you will be a victim of the mind (karma included) in the afterlife. If you are very conscious, highly alert, awake and in control of the mind, you are so in the afterlife. There is no difference. You are still the same when you die.

Greetings,
Bentinho

[Nichole]

Originally Posted by Fin

Nichole,
I have a large old Walnut tree in my garden.
It is a happy tree, & some of its happiness rubs off on me, I often greet it.
The tree is appearing in my dreams a lot recently.
More recently I perceive different colour around it, shades of purple & red.
Do the colours represent its Chakras or its Koshas?

Nichole, have you noticed anything similar?

Thank you for your insight Nichole, it is possible i am experiencing the Tree on MY different subtle bodies? (An extension of my Puja, perhaps.)

Namaste,
Fin

Dear Fin,
I have had many loves in my life that happened also to be trees! Most of the books that I own have leaves from my travels tucked into their pages. My book shelves are lined with pinecones, and dries leaves and pods from trees that I've loved. I do know that feeling of a "happy tree," and most recently for me, "our rocks," which are on mine and my husband's property in the mountains. Just being close to them gives me a feeling of immense joy.

I have not seen colors around trees or anything other than my human loved ones or certain Yoga therapy clients.

I think that you are experiencing the tree on your subtle bodies. This experience as an extension of your puja was something that cued for me a conversation that I had had with Mukunda. I was discussing a similar experience with Mukunda, that also centered around him, and he told me that it was my connection to the teachings coming through him and that this is what I was seeing and perceiving.
My life as my practice, really began to evolve rapidly when I began the practice of singing my opening prayers in the morning and singing my closing prayers in the evening: making my whole day my Yoga practice. For me, it marked my entire day as holy and it called me to be more responsible and present to my behavior and thoughts. It also supported me in doing some of the hard work that I've agreed to do. It has been powerful, powerful, powerful stuff. Fin, is this similar to what you meant with your comment about the extension of your puja?

I am enjoying the conversations on this thread.

My love and respect,

[lavina]

Originally Posted by Fin

It is a happy tree, & some of its happiness rubs off on me, I often greet it.
Fin

Dear Fin,
I am rereading "The secret teachings of plants - The Intelligence of the heart in the direct perception of nature" by Stephen Buhner. You may find part 2 of the book of interesting.
Lavina

[Metaphysical Story Teller]

Originally Posted by InnerAthlete

Is it then possible to reincarnate as a rhododendron, assuming that one believes in reincarnation (in the first place) of course???

Many of the Hindu scriptures teach that man can reincarnate backward when he's creating too much evil karma for himself. Evil karma tends to breed more evil karma. Once you dig the pit deep enough it's impossible to dig yourself out.

A few incarnations as a beast or plant puts a halt to your ability to create further karma (good or bad) for yourself. Plants and animals and minerals don't have free will -- hence no karma.

So you can burn off the bad stuff you created as a human, and then go back with a fresh slate.

Sort of an emergency tactic the universe pulls to keep us from creating a hell on earth for ourselves.