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Old 01-29-2011, 10:00 PM   #1
AthMJ
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Ujjayi Pranayama vs. Taoist Reverse Breath

Hello all.

I've been practicing chi kung and tai chi for almost a year now and have just implemented my yoga practice.

The breath used in the former is the Taoist Reverse Breath, a diaphragm-heavy breath.

By my understanding of the ujjayi breath, this is done in the chest. I would liken it (my understanding of it) to the first breath you take on a cool morning if you're camping up in the mountains.

Am I right that these two breaths are not related?
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Old 01-30-2011, 03:05 AM   #2
InnerAthlete
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Completely different practices have completely different practices.
There are certainly some who practice both and still others who may insist they are the same, similar, alike, cousins, and so on. But to me they are radically divergent at the energetic level.

That having been said, there are as many expressions of yoga as there are varieties of flowers. In the one I practice, train, and teach the breath is kept in the home of the breath. That home is between the diaphragm and the collar bones. Ujjayi is one of many, many forms of breath control and while the breath itself resides as mentioned, the sound is in the throat or larynx.

The respiratory system is a pneumatic system. Pneumatic systems move air. The digestive system is a hydraulic system. Hydraulic systems move liquid. The rest of the math you can do for yourself.
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:38 AM   #3
The Scales
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Radically Different on the Energetic Level?


From my stuides. Chi equals prana.


Chi translated literaly is 'wind'. - From "the essence of Tai Chi" - by Waysun Liao. "Intrinsic Life force energy"
and so on . . .


? ? ?
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InnerAthlete View Post
The digestive system is a hydraulic system. Hydraulic systems move liquid.
I don't know....in this Vata's body, her digestive system moves quite a bit of air, at times.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:59 PM   #5
InnerAthlete
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@ scales: I understand your understanding. Chi then literally would also be flatulence?

@ bluelotus: I believe the key phrase is "designed to..." rather than cannot or shouldn't. Though flatulence may be defined as dysfunctionaal rather than functional when referring to the digestive system.
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:19 PM   #6
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Yes, there is no difference between "Chi" and "prana", they are just different words that are referring to the same phenomenon.
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AthMJ View Post
Hello all.

I've been practicing chi kung and tai chi for almost a year now and have just implemented my yoga practice.

The breath used in the former is the Taoist Reverse Breath, a diaphragm-heavy breath.

By my understanding of the ujjayi breath, this is done in the chest. I would liken it (my understanding of it) to the first breath you take on a cool morning if you're camping up in the mountains.

Am I right that these two breaths are not related?
The technique of ujjayi pranayama:

http://www.videosurf.com/video/baba-...ess-1214657371
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:43 AM   #8
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Ujjayi for me is making(and listening to/feeling/focusing) the rasping sound in the throat (not chest) on the inhale and exhale, I like to take nice deep full three part breath starting lower tummy,chest,shoulders and try to use mulha bandha on inhale and push the tummy a bit on exhale to push all air out- inhale and exhale through the nose w mouth shut. At least that's the most rewarding ujjayi style breath I've been utilizing recently. you'll have to forgive me, I am not familiar with the taoist reverse breath though.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:41 PM   #9
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How do you do mulha bandha while inhaling without restricting the diaphragm?
I always understood that mulha bandha should be done after the exhale, before the inhale.
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Old 01-31-2011, 05:46 PM   #10
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Not certain. The technique I use for the root lock is fairly easy to contract through all phases of breath, isn't the lock you're referring is uddiyana isn't it? Like when used to do 'upward prana' and during nauli. During ujjayi though, I listen in on the sound in the throat. It's entirely possible that the understanding I have gained through the various written sources and yoga classes have still left space for a greater understanding and technique here on my part.
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:18 PM   #11
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Hi Joanna,

Quick answer here.

I occasssionaly do it like so:-

I inhale, then contract the perineum or cervix on kumbhaka/retention( held for as long as is comfortable) , then i release the contraction,mulabandha, and at the same time exhale.

You might be thinking of uddiyana which is generally practiced always after an exhale. But by the way uddiyana might be too much producing less thn optimal result without some preparatory techniques or preparation. But don't worry to much if you feel inclined to try it out then go ahead and make make your observations.There are different approaches.I might be inclined to practice belly-breathing awareness or abdomina or other pranayamas cmbined with or before any use of uddiyanaa but the individiula should be able to know if they can employ bandhas with proper effect..

Some may use jalandhara bandha together. If you do use this hold neck lock first and release it last, if that makes sense.. Hold contractions for as long as comfortable.Avoid strained breathing. I noticed you said elsewhere another post, that your sacrum felt slightly out of alignement.You used the term slightly wedged or angled towards one side of the pelvisi believe. This i understand coorresponds to the svadishtana chakra which can be a bit tricky to wake up certainly if your root is a bit dull.Like much of yoga the best effect are got through continued patient practice off all types and areas of yoga.

If you try mulabhanda try to sit in a seat for meditation with eyes closed and notice the effects of the contraction after performance. Keep it subtle and controlled and light and notice how you feel on the subtle level.Try a few contractions...breathe normally etc.What do you think you can maybe sense within the subtle domain? Try a few times..not that difficult.You could try with jalandhara perhaps too. The locks are best employed as aprt of sadhan with third-eye exercises or pranayam and wider sadhana but bear in mind it is continued practice that gets results and there might not seem to be much happenning sometimes per sesssion say. The nervous system wakes up eventually when it gets to know a good thing or two.

Just keep on practicing..... a full practice for best results...paying attention to internal subtler effects whilst in meditative seats. Sukhasana is perfectly fine.... keep it nice & easy & relaxed....No strain,,subtle, soft and relaxed.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:47 PM   #12
rechaka
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oh all this talk of contractions is definately stimulates me to do some good yogic deep breathing. pranic retention, whatever you want to call it. giddy up horsey. hatha yoga yumminess with a cup of tea.
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