upavistha konasana

Hanu · 02-08-2010, 01:34 AM

Hello,

I had my first one-on-one session with my yoga teacher the other day (excluding ones where nobody else in the class turns up). We were mainly working on my arm strength, but I also asked her for help in my upavistha konasana.

I am very flexible (probably not compared to some of you, but still...). I find it easy to put my face on my shins when I'm doing folding forward in any 'legs together' poses, but for some reason, I cannot roll my hips when I have my legs out for this pose. I feel as though I can't even imagine how it would feel to arch my lower back in this position. I showed my yoga teacher and she was a bit baffled. She suggested it might be a mental block more than anything else because she knows I don't have hamstring or hip tightness.

Any ideas? Thanks

Willem · 02-08-2010, 03:40 AM

Hello Hanu,

Just an idea: There is a big difference between forward fold (legs together) and upavistha konasana (legs spread).

In the starting position of upavistha konasana, you spread the legs. This means that you are putting tension on muscles on the inside of your thighs. With your legs together, there is more slack in these muscles. The tension of these muscles prevents your pelvis from tipping forward. This is not a mental block, but tightness of the muscles!

If you want more anatomical details: When I speak of the muscles on the inside of your thighs, I am referring to the hip adductors, mainly the adductor magnus. This muscle inserts - in part - at the sitting bones. I am also referring to the two hamstring that insert on the inside of the knee (semimembranosus and semitendinosus). These also insert at the sitting bones. Tension on muscles that insert on the bottom of the pelvis (sitting bones) hinders the pelvis when you want it to tip forward. Yes! Spreading your legs makes life more difficult for the hamstrings that caused you little difficulty in forward fold.

What to do? Prepare yourself by lengthening your adductors and "inner hamstrings". Poses like extended triangle (trikonasana), bound angle (baddha konasana) and wide leg forward bend (prasarita padottanasana) could help. Along with patience!

P.S. Since you mention that you are good at forward fold, I have assumed that your sacroiliac flexibility is good and I have left this out of the discussion. However, there is one trick you could try. In the starting position with spread legs, use your hands to spread the sitting bones. Move your buttock muscles sideways. Spreading the sitting bones makes it easier for the sacrum to tip forward within the pelvis (nutation).

Hanu · 02-08-2010, 04:05 AM

Hi Willem, thanks for this.

The thing is, I am absolutely fine with trikonasana, baddha konasana (knees near to floor) and prasarita padottanasana (I can easily get my crown to the floor), but I can't tilt my pelvis in upavistha konasana at all. Not at all. When I seem so flexible in every other position I know, I can't understand why I can barely move in this one. I am happy to be patient, but I just want to know what I can do to work on it. I'm not convinced flexibility is the problem.

Willem · 02-08-2010, 10:30 AM

I'm still puzzled by your statement that flexibility of adductors and hamstring is not an issue.

What does your reclining hand to toe pose (supta padangusthasana) look like? Can you move your leg towards you beyond the vertical? This will tell you something about hamstring flexibility. And how is your revolved reclining hand to toe pose (parivrtta supta padangusthasana)? Can you reach the floor with your outer foot? This will tell you something about adductor tightness. These poses are good preparations, too.

I was happy to read that you can do the other poses with ease. However, note that the final position of upavistha konasana (chest to floor) is more demanding than the usual final position of prasarita padottanasana (crown to floor). Even though the poses look similar when rotated through 90 degrees. In baddha konasana, the bent knees give some slack in the adductors. Triangle does not require forward bending. Are you sure that your forward fold doesn't rely on too much lumbar flexion and too little hip flexion and pelvic tilt?

I do hope we can solve this mystery.

Hanu · 02-08-2010, 11:24 AM

Hi Willem,

Your reply made me laugh! Maybe it's not such a mystery, it's just that both my yoga teachers have seemed a bit confused. In supta padangusthasana I can get my leg to abut a 45 degree angle from my body, sometimes a bit less. In parivrtta supta padangusthasana, my butt comes off the floor atabut 45 degrees, so I can't get it to the floor unless my hip comes up. If my hip is up, it goes to the floor easily.

Sorry if this is a silly question - it just seems like I am bolted upright in this position. It's ann odd sensation. I feel like I don't even know where to begin with rolling my pelvis like this.

Willem · 02-09-2010, 01:30 AM

It's good to have a laugh! You made me smile, too.

I sometimes take asana and anatomy too seriously. I'm enjoying this discussion, because I'll be teaching spread leg forward folds in about a months time.

From your feedback on reclining hand-to-toe poses, you seem to have excellent hamstring flexibility. You adductors are less flexible than your hamstrings, though. Please remember to keep both sides of your pelvis on the floor in the revolved position. Otherwise you are putting too much stress (torque) on your lumbar spine. This is potentially harmful.

So my best guess is adductor tightness. How about using a rolled up towel under each knee? Does this improve your pose? What about sitting on a folded blanket? This could help with pelvic tilt. Have you tried to spread the sitting bones with your hands to help with sacrum mobility? And all of the above?

Finally, if the adductors are not responsible, there can also be limitations in the hip joint (ligaments or bony). From your proficiency at other poses, I would put my bet on the adductors, though.

Sutra I-12 "The vacillating waves of perceptions are stilled through consistent earnest practice and dispassionate non-attachment".

Mystery solved?

Hanu · 02-09-2010, 01:34 AM

Willem, I am dying to try these! I'm in the office and wearing a dress, so I will hold off until I get home...

Thanks so much - I will let you know how I got on. I am planning some moonlight yoga on the beach tonight, so I will write these tips down and try them there.

02-08-2010, 04:05 AM	#3
Hanu pañcaashát Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 51	Hi Willem, thanks for this. The thing is, I am absolutely fine with trikonasana, baddha konasana (knees near to floor) and prasarita padottanasana (I can easily get my crown to the floor), but I can't tilt my pelvis in upavistha konasana at all. Not at all. When I seem so flexible in every other position I know, I can't understand why I can barely move in this one. I am happy to be patient, but I just want to know what I can do to work on it. I'm not convinced flexibility is the problem. Last edited by Hanu; 02-08-2010 at 04:06 AM. Reason: add detail so it makes sense.

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02-08-2010, 01:34 AM	#1
Hanu pañcaashát Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 51	Hello, I had my first one-on-one session with my yoga teacher the other day (excluding ones where nobody else in the class turns up). We were mainly working on my arm strength, but I also asked her for help in my upavistha konasana. I am very flexible (probably not compared to some of you, but still...). I find it easy to put my face on my shins when I'm doing folding forward in any 'legs together' poses, but for some reason, I cannot roll my hips when I have my legs out for this pose. I feel as though I can't even imagine how it would feel to arch my lower back in this position. I showed my yoga teacher and she was a bit baffled. She suggested it might be a mental block more than anything else because she knows I don't have hamstring or hip tightness. Any ideas? Thanks

02-08-2010, 03:40 AM	#2
Willem trishatá Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 327	Hello Hanu, Just an idea: There is a big difference between forward fold (legs together) and upavistha konasana (legs spread). In the starting position of upavistha konasana, you spread the legs. This means that you are putting tension on muscles on the inside of your thighs. With your legs together, there is more slack in these muscles. The tension of these muscles prevents your pelvis from tipping forward. This is not a mental block, but tightness of the muscles! If you want more anatomical details: When I speak of the muscles on the inside of your thighs, I am referring to the hip adductors, mainly the adductor magnus. This muscle inserts - in part - at the sitting bones. I am also referring to the two hamstring that insert on the inside of the knee (semimembranosus and semitendinosus). These also insert at the sitting bones. Tension on muscles that insert on the bottom of the pelvis (sitting bones) hinders the pelvis when you want it to tip forward. Yes! Spreading your legs makes life more difficult for the hamstrings that caused you little difficulty in forward fold. What to do? Prepare yourself by lengthening your adductors and "inner hamstrings". Poses like extended triangle (trikonasana), bound angle (baddha konasana) and wide leg forward bend (prasarita padottanasana) could help. Along with patience! P.S. Since you mention that you are good at forward fold, I have assumed that your sacroiliac flexibility is good and I have left this out of the discussion. However, there is one trick you could try. In the starting position with spread legs, use your hands to spread the sitting bones. Move your buttock muscles sideways. Spreading the sitting bones makes it easier for the sacrum to tip forward within the pelvis (nutation).

02-08-2010, 10:30 AM	#4
Willem trishatá Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 327	I'm still puzzled by your statement that flexibility of adductors and hamstring is not an issue. What does your reclining hand to toe pose (supta padangusthasana) look like? Can you move your leg towards you beyond the vertical? This will tell you something about hamstring flexibility. And how is your revolved reclining hand to toe pose (parivrtta supta padangusthasana)? Can you reach the floor with your outer foot? This will tell you something about adductor tightness. These poses are good preparations, too. I was happy to read that you can do the other poses with ease. However, note that the final position of upavistha konasana (chest to floor) is more demanding than the usual final position of prasarita padottanasana (crown to floor). Even though the poses look similar when rotated through 90 degrees. In baddha konasana, the bent knees give some slack in the adductors. Triangle does not require forward bending. Are you sure that your forward fold doesn't rely on too much lumbar flexion and too little hip flexion and pelvic tilt? I do hope we can solve this mystery.

02-08-2010, 11:24 AM	#5
Hanu pañcaashát Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 51	Hi Willem, Your reply made me laugh! Maybe it's not such a mystery, it's just that both my yoga teachers have seemed a bit confused. In supta padangusthasana I can get my leg to abut a 45 degree angle from my body, sometimes a bit less. In parivrtta supta padangusthasana, my butt comes off the floor atabut 45 degrees, so I can't get it to the floor unless my hip comes up. If my hip is up, it goes to the floor easily. Sorry if this is a silly question - it just seems like I am bolted upright in this position. It's ann odd sensation. I feel like I don't even know where to begin with rolling my pelvis like this.

02-09-2010, 01:30 AM	#6
Willem trishatá Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 327	It's good to have a laugh! You made me smile, too. I sometimes take asana and anatomy too seriously. I'm enjoying this discussion, because I'll be teaching spread leg forward folds in about a months time. From your feedback on reclining hand-to-toe poses, you seem to have excellent hamstring flexibility. You adductors are less flexible than your hamstrings, though. Please remember to keep both sides of your pelvis on the floor in the revolved position. Otherwise you are putting too much stress (torque) on your lumbar spine. This is potentially harmful. So my best guess is adductor tightness. How about using a rolled up towel under each knee? Does this improve your pose? What about sitting on a folded blanket? This could help with pelvic tilt. Have you tried to spread the sitting bones with your hands to help with sacrum mobility? And all of the above? Finally, if the adductors are not responsible, there can also be limitations in the hip joint (ligaments or bony). From your proficiency at other poses, I would put my bet on the adductors, though. Sutra I-12 "The vacillating waves of perceptions are stilled through consistent earnest practice and dispassionate non-attachment". Mystery solved?

02-09-2010, 01:34 AM	#7
Hanu pañcaashát Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 51	Willem, I am dying to try these! I'm in the office and wearing a dress, so I will hold off until I get home... Thanks so much - I will let you know how I got on. I am planning some moonlight yoga on the beach tonight, so I will write these tips down and try them there.