Very Weird Knee Injury

shoney45 · 05-02-2007, 11:13 AM

Earlier this week, I was doing zazen. I was in a full lotus position. I have only recently been able to even get into that position. So for the purposes of building endurance in that position. I was going for two minute stretches of time on each leg. Just as I was getting into the position, something 'popped' in my left leg. The location of it is at the back of my leg...behind my knee...on the left side of my left leg. It is tender where the joints come together. It felt like a great big 'super knuckle' popping.

The irony of it is that it seems to have fixed another knee problem I was having. I am a classical guitarist and spend several hours a day with one leg jacked up higher than the other due to the use of a footstool. I have been slowly developing a very slight pain in my knee due to this. That pain however, seems to have gone away. This happened on Sunday morning...and doesn't seem to have improved much.

It is discouraging because most of my yoga practice is geared towards developing my ability to sit for long periods of time for the purposes of zazen-like meditation. So now I can't sit. I can barely even kneel. And most yoga poses that involve having that leg bent are out of the question. Nothing feels broken. There is no swelling, there is no bruising. I can walk around just fine. It is just when I do yoga or meditation specific things with it, I am significantly hampered.

Has this, or anything similar happened to anyone before? Thanks for any thought on the matter.

Sean Clark
Parker, CO

katgi · 05-03-2007, 01:04 AM

Hi Shoney45,
I have a question.Have you seen a doctor or a physician after what happened?For me it's important to see if there is a problem because the knee joint is both complex and of much importance. And in order to cure it even through asana you have to have a clear view of the subject.If eth is fine on a corps level, try to see the fear that has arised through this practice, or other sentiments.It's strange you say you cannot kneel but you can walk with no problem.what about stairs?each movement has to do with a specific movement of the joint.
One advise(sauf visiting a doctor). try to exercise ahimsa-non violence. Yoga practice involves respecting our physical limits. when you get in a new asana, it takes a long time of practice to gain endurance in it.there are a lot meditation poses, try one that seems comfort to your body!
good luck

souljourney108 · 05-03-2007, 05:36 AM

I'll just write about my experience with knees opening up. I experienced pain in the knees for about 2 months a few years ago while doing an intensive of asana practice, then the pain disappeared and I could sit in Lotus, before which time I couldn't. It felt to me like the pain was the knees opening up and getting stronger.
I didn't push myself so much, always a chilled practice. So possible this is happening to you, just take it easy , be present, no rush...zazen....
Peace to you, Soul

shoney45 · 06-05-2007, 11:41 AM

Well, thanks for your replys. I think that I just overdid it, and overstretched some of the non-muscular tissue behind my knees. I am not sure why there was the loud popping in my left knee. I mean, it was really, really loud. But the same kind of feeling developed in my left knee also, just without the popping. So I have been taking it easy on the knees. The onus of the pain took about three weeks to go away. At least enough so that I could begin using my knees again doing asanas. For meditation I am using the Burmese sitting posture until they get better. I was just so exited that I could get into a lotus position that I pushed it too hard and now am paying for it. Peace.

Devlin7 · 06-07-2007, 12:57 AM

Anatomically, the knee can bend and straighten, it was never designed for any sideways movement. Yoga seems to get a bum wrap for hurting peoples knees but the reality is you need to practice the early limbs of yoga [Yama and Niyama] whilst practising Asana. Know thyself, non violence, contentment..

If you are getting pain in your knees in any sitting position then the reality probably is that your hips aren't open enough for that seated posture.

Listen to your body! Tearing or wrecking the knee is not recommended [I know, I have been there!]

InnerAthlete · 06-07-2007, 01:25 AM

As Devlin points out, the knee is a hinge joint. It is sooo common for students to leap into Virasna and Padmasana based on it's looks with no regard for the effects on phyisiology. When an athlete has an ankle taped to reduce it's mobility, the action must go elsewhere in the limb. It typically goes to the next available joint which is the knee. Similarly, when a yoga student places a movement demand on the legs which require hip opening when there is none, the action must go elsewhere, in this case the knee.

It is not required to be in padmasana to find the self, meditate, reach samadhi, connect with the divine. If that were the case the ability to do such things would be exclusive and that would obviously be ridiculous.

shoney45 · 06-07-2007, 03:38 PM

I wasn't doing padmasana because of how it looks. That just seems vain and silly...especially since there is no-one around to see me do it. I am aware also that there is nothing intrinsically magical or special about that particular position. That belief seems rooted in ignorance The first time I got into it however, it just felt amazing to me how great the stability that it provided felt. That is why I have worked towards it. As it turns out, I went too far too fast. That is all. No big deal eh? So now I just take it easy, recover, learn from my errors and continue. Makes sense to me. I will continue to work towards it, but in a more reserved fashion. The physical stability it provides just plain feels right during meditation.

InnerAthlete · 06-08-2007, 01:57 AM

Obviously I was misunderstood.
My post was not directed at the OP (who in this case is shoney, above).
My post was a general one about the observations I have over the last 9 years of students and injury relative to these two poses.

I was NOT saying student do padmasana because of "how" it looks. What I was eluding to was the dramatic difference between what the eye sees on the outside of an asana and what is actually happening in it on the levels of the five koshas.

My posts was intended as "educational" for any potential reader and therefore some rudimentaries were included. Vain, silly and ignorant are often parts of our practice. In fact, for some, but clearly not for others, overdoing (labeled as "too far, too fast") IS vain, silly, ignorant and egotistical. And that is not a criticism at all. These are parts of the practice when human beings are involved. And I of course do these things also.

shoney45 · 06-17-2007, 06:07 PM

"What I was eluding to was the dramatic difference between what the eye sees on the outside of an asana and what is actually happening in it on the levels of the five koshas."

I am sure that I must agree. I still have a hard time following a lot of the spirituality of yoga. It is very deep, and there is a whole lot to it. So I have to say I don't know a whole lot about the five Koshas. If I relate that comment to the matter of physicality alone however, that seems to be about the most true thing I have ever read. It is both humbling and pretty mind-blowing. I can imagine myself for example when I used to race bicycles...walking by a yoga studio and seeing everyone doing adhomukha svasasans, and perhaps thinking what a bunch of weak people they are. Now however, I find myself pretty blown away when I look at an Iyengar book for example and see th pictures of those guys in the book doing the pose so perfectly. It is quite amazing.

Yoga just seems full of far out twists and turns all the time. I find that it doesn't give me what I want, and it doesn't give me what I expect. Yoga does however, have a way of somehow delivering what it is that I need. This knee injury has been very frustrating and humbling to me.

As I look out to the horizon however, it is as though there is an amost infinite horizon. To think that a single asana can take months or even years to learn to execute it really well is awe inspiring, and pretty reverential actually.

Anyway....it is pretty amazing stuff. I am sure I could go on and on, and never be quite clear. So that is about all for now then. Take Care.

Peace;

Sean

InnerAthlete · 06-17-2007, 08:42 PM

Just like life

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoney45

Yoga just seems full of far out twists and turns all the time. I find that it doesn't give me what I want, and it doesn't give me what I expect. Yoga does however, have a way of somehow delivering what it is that I need.
Sean

rlassiter · 06-25-2007, 01:47 PM

Your knee popping experience sounds exactly like one I had two months ago when I was getting in padmasana (which I've been doing for 20 years). It's still a tiny bit sore - the doctor I saw couldn't find anything obviously wrong other than possible tendonitis and presribed Naproxen and said 'No lotus for two weeks'. So, I've been taking it easy but the knee is still is making some weird sounds. I made an appt. to see an orthopedist next week so will hopefully find out what is going on.

shoney45 · 06-30-2007, 10:13 PM

Well, thanks for your thoughts everybody. My knees are on the mend, and are just about back to where they were. The whole thing has been profitable as a learning experience concerning the principle of Ahimsa...which leads me to a new thread of discussion I am interested in.

06-07-2007, 01:25 AM	#6
InnerAthlete Mostly Good Egg Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Certified Purna Yoga Teacher - Seattle, WA Posts: 1,035	As Devlin points out, the knee is a hinge joint. It is sooo common for students to leap into Virasna and Padmasana based on it's looks with no regard for the effects on phyisiology. When an athlete has an ankle taped to reduce it's mobility, the action must go elsewhere in the limb. It typically goes to the next available joint which is the knee. Similarly, when a yoga student places a movement demand on the legs which require hip opening when there is none, the action must go elsewhere, in this case the knee. It is not required to be in padmasana to find the self, meditate, reach samadhi, connect with the divine. If that were the case the ability to do such things would be exclusive and that would obviously be ridiculous. __________________ ---- http://www.yogamojodojo.com http://www.teamyoga.com http://www.innerathlete.net/forum

06-08-2007, 01:57 AM	#8
InnerAthlete Mostly Good Egg Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Certified Purna Yoga Teacher - Seattle, WA Posts: 1,035	Obviously I was misunderstood. My post was not directed at the OP (who in this case is shoney, above). My post was a general one about the observations I have over the last 9 years of students and injury relative to these two poses. I was NOT saying student do padmasana because of "how" it looks. What I was eluding to was the dramatic difference between what the eye sees on the outside of an asana and what is actually happening in it on the levels of the five koshas. My posts was intended as "educational" for any potential reader and therefore some rudimentaries were included. Vain, silly and ignorant are often parts of our practice. In fact, for some, but clearly not for others, overdoing (labeled as "too far, too fast") IS vain, silly, ignorant and egotistical. And that is not a criticism at all. These are parts of the practice when human beings are involved. And I of course do these things also. __________________ ---- http://www.yogamojodojo.com http://www.teamyoga.com http://www.innerathlete.net/forum

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05-02-2007, 11:13 AM	#1
shoney45 Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 23	Earlier this week, I was doing zazen. I was in a full lotus position. I have only recently been able to even get into that position. So for the purposes of building endurance in that position. I was going for two minute stretches of time on each leg. Just as I was getting into the position, something 'popped' in my left leg. The location of it is at the back of my leg...behind my knee...on the left side of my left leg. It is tender where the joints come together. It felt like a great big 'super knuckle' popping. The irony of it is that it seems to have fixed another knee problem I was having. I am a classical guitarist and spend several hours a day with one leg jacked up higher than the other due to the use of a footstool. I have been slowly developing a very slight pain in my knee due to this. That pain however, seems to have gone away. This happened on Sunday morning...and doesn't seem to have improved much. It is discouraging because most of my yoga practice is geared towards developing my ability to sit for long periods of time for the purposes of zazen-like meditation. So now I can't sit. I can barely even kneel. And most yoga poses that involve having that leg bent are out of the question. Nothing feels broken. There is no swelling, there is no bruising. I can walk around just fine. It is just when I do yoga or meditation specific things with it, I am significantly hampered. Has this, or anything similar happened to anyone before? Thanks for any thought on the matter. Sean Clark Parker, CO

05-03-2007, 01:04 AM	#2
katgi Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: athens,greece Posts: 13	Hi Shoney45, I have a question.Have you seen a doctor or a physician after what happened?For me it's important to see if there is a problem because the knee joint is both complex and of much importance. And in order to cure it even through asana you have to have a clear view of the subject.If eth is fine on a corps level, try to see the fear that has arised through this practice, or other sentiments.It's strange you say you cannot kneel but you can walk with no problem.what about stairs?each movement has to do with a specific movement of the joint. One advise(sauf visiting a doctor). try to exercise ahimsa-non violence. Yoga practice involves respecting our physical limits. when you get in a new asana, it takes a long time of practice to gain endurance in it.there are a lot meditation poses, try one that seems comfort to your body! good luck

05-03-2007, 05:36 AM	#3
souljourney108 Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: byron bay, australia Posts: 43	I'll just write about my experience with knees opening up. I experienced pain in the knees for about 2 months a few years ago while doing an intensive of asana practice, then the pain disappeared and I could sit in Lotus, before which time I couldn't. It felt to me like the pain was the knees opening up and getting stronger. I didn't push myself so much, always a chilled practice. So possible this is happening to you, just take it easy , be present, no rush...zazen.... Peace to you, Soul

06-05-2007, 11:41 AM	#4
shoney45 Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 23	Well, thanks for your replys. I think that I just overdid it, and overstretched some of the non-muscular tissue behind my knees. I am not sure why there was the loud popping in my left knee. I mean, it was really, really loud. But the same kind of feeling developed in my left knee also, just without the popping. So I have been taking it easy on the knees. The onus of the pain took about three weeks to go away. At least enough so that I could begin using my knees again doing asanas. For meditation I am using the Burmese sitting posture until they get better. I was just so exited that I could get into a lotus position that I pushed it too hard and now am paying for it. Peace.

06-07-2007, 12:57 AM	#5
Devlin7 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: nz Posts: 14	Anatomically, the knee can bend and straighten, it was never designed for any sideways movement. Yoga seems to get a bum wrap for hurting peoples knees but the reality is you need to practice the early limbs of yoga [Yama and Niyama] whilst practising Asana. Know thyself, non violence, contentment.. If you are getting pain in your knees in any sitting position then the reality probably is that your hips aren't open enough for that seated posture. Listen to your body! Tearing or wrecking the knee is not recommended [I know, I have been there!]

06-07-2007, 03:38 PM	#7
shoney45 Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 23	I wasn't doing padmasana because of how it looks. That just seems vain and silly...especially since there is no-one around to see me do it. I am aware also that there is nothing intrinsically magical or special about that particular position. That belief seems rooted in ignorance The first time I got into it however, it just felt amazing to me how great the stability that it provided felt. That is why I have worked towards it. As it turns out, I went too far too fast. That is all. No big deal eh? So now I just take it easy, recover, learn from my errors and continue. Makes sense to me. I will continue to work towards it, but in a more reserved fashion. The physical stability it provides just plain feels right during meditation.

06-17-2007, 06:07 PM	#9
shoney45 Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 23	"What I was eluding to was the dramatic difference between what the eye sees on the outside of an asana and what is actually happening in it on the levels of the five koshas." I am sure that I must agree. I still have a hard time following a lot of the spirituality of yoga. It is very deep, and there is a whole lot to it. So I have to say I don't know a whole lot about the five Koshas. If I relate that comment to the matter of physicality alone however, that seems to be about the most true thing I have ever read. It is both humbling and pretty mind-blowing. I can imagine myself for example when I used to race bicycles...walking by a yoga studio and seeing everyone doing adhomukha svasasans, and perhaps thinking what a bunch of weak people they are. Now however, I find myself pretty blown away when I look at an Iyengar book for example and see th pictures of those guys in the book doing the pose so perfectly. It is quite amazing. Yoga just seems full of far out twists and turns all the time. I find that it doesn't give me what I want, and it doesn't give me what I expect. Yoga does however, have a way of somehow delivering what it is that I need. This knee injury has been very frustrating and humbling to me. As I look out to the horizon however, it is as though there is an amost infinite horizon. To think that a single asana can take months or even years to learn to execute it really well is awe inspiring, and pretty reverential actually. Anyway....it is pretty amazing stuff. I am sure I could go on and on, and never be quite clear. So that is about all for now then. Take Care. Peace; Sean

06-25-2007, 01:47 PM	#11
rlassiter Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NC Posts: 1	Your knee popping experience sounds exactly like one I had two months ago when I was getting in padmasana (which I've been doing for 20 years). It's still a tiny bit sore - the doctor I saw couldn't find anything obviously wrong other than possible tendonitis and presribed Naproxen and said 'No lotus for two weeks'. So, I've been taking it easy but the knee is still is making some weird sounds. I made an appt. to see an orthopedist next week so will hopefully find out what is going on.

06-30-2007, 10:13 PM	#12
shoney45 Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 23	Well, thanks for your thoughts everybody. My knees are on the mend, and are just about back to where they were. The whole thing has been profitable as a learning experience concerning the principle of Ahimsa...which leads me to a new thread of discussion I am interested in.