What is tantra ?

Hubert · 11-25-2007, 08:33 AM

Is tantra the esoteric teaching of India ? I mean the Vedas, hinduism being exoteric, and tantra being esoteric ?
I had this idea when I learnt that in India tantra is often associated with spells and black magic.

Pandara · 11-25-2007, 08:47 AM

Hi Hubert,

I might be wrong, but this was what I was taught by my teacher. Tantra is neither exoteric or esoteric, it is occult. Not occult in the negative sense that we sometimes attach to it in the west, but occult meaning here "that which is hidden".

Hubert · 11-25-2007, 09:15 AM

I thought esoteric meant the same thing ...
On the usage of word "occult", I was prepared to not associate more with it than it means, as one of Rudolf Steiner's book is called "The occult science".
Usually by occult, people mean some truth hidden by the will of man ... but it is not more hidden than writing is to an analphabet, hidden by the incapacity in understanding of the seeker, and not by others.

Pandara · 11-25-2007, 11:08 AM

Hi Hubert,

I might be wrong, but my understanding has always been that esoteric refers to that which is advanced and specialised and not necessarily hidden, that it is usually difficult to understand or to remember.

Occult for me is that which is hidden or secret and not necessarily difficult to understand or to remember once you have been given the eyes to see and the ears to hear as my teacher always say.

And this is where Tantra falls for me under occult. Yes, there may be an esoteric and exoteric side to it as well, all just veils depending on your undertsanding and where you are on your path.

**Mirjana** · 11-27-2007, 06:54 AM

Hi Hubert,

according to Dr. Feuerstein in a book The Yoga Tradition, masters of Tantra or Tantrism proposed a new answer and a new style of spirituality in the opening centuries of the first millennium C.E. Their techings are embodied in the Tantras. They are dedicated to the feminine psychocosmic principle, or Shakti. Goddess worship, which is central to many Tantric schools, existed already in ancient Vedic times.

The scope topics discussed in the Tantras is cosiderable. They deal with the creation and history of the world; the names and functions of a great variety of male and female deities and other higher beings; the types of ritual worship, magic, sorcery and diviation, esoteric physiology (the mapping of the subtle or psychic body), the awakening of the mysterious serpent power (kundalini-shakti), techniques of bodily and mental purification, the nature of enlightenment, and not least, sacred sexuality.

The word is derived from the root tan, meaning "to extend, stretch". It is generally interpreted as " that by which knowledge/understanding is extended, spread out".
A second meaning of the word tantra is simply "book" or "text". Thus a tantra can be defined as a text that broadens understanding to the point where genuine wisdom arises.

The great Tantric formula, which is fundamental also to Mahayana Buddhism, is "samsara equals nirvana". That is to say, the conditional or phenomenal world is coessential with the transcendental Being-Consciousness-Bliss. Therefore, enlightenment is not a matter of leaving the world, or of killing one's natural impulses. Rather, it is a matter of envisioning the lower reality as contained in and coalescing with the higher reality, and of allowing the higher reality to transform the lower reality. Thus, the keynote of Tantra is integration - the integration of the self with the Self, of bodily existence with the spiritual reality.

It is important to realize that the Tantric revolution was not the product of mere philosophical speculation. Tantrism is intensely practical. It is, above all, a practice of realization or what is called sadhana. Thus Yoga is central to it.

Historically, Tantra can be understood as a dialectical response to the often abstract approach of Advaita Vedanta, which was and still is dominant philosophy of the hindu elite. Tantra was a grassroots movement, and many, if not most, of its early protagonists hailed from the castes at the bottom of the social pyramid in India. They were responding to a widely felt need for a more practical orientation that would integrate the lofty metaphysical ideals of nondualism with down-to-earth procedures for living a sanctified life without necessarily abandoning one's belief in the local deities and age-old rituals for worshiping them.

As far as I know Hatha Yoga comes from the tantric stream.

I hope this is a bit interesting for you.

Friendly greetings

Hubert · 11-27-2007, 07:45 AM

I see. Thank you for your time and effort spent in presenting this. I have some thoughts on this this is not the time to share them.

11-25-2007, 08:47 AM	#2
Pandara sátshata Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pretoria, South Africa Posts: 605	Hi Hubert, I might be wrong, but this was what I was taught by my teacher. Tantra is neither exoteric or esoteric, it is occult. Not occult in the negative sense that we sometimes attach to it in the west, but occult meaning here "that which is hidden". __________________ Blessings & Om's Pandara _____________________________________________ Serve, Love, Give, Purify, Meditate, Realise. - Swami Sivanada

11-25-2007, 11:08 AM	#4
Pandara sátshata Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pretoria, South Africa Posts: 605	Hi Hubert, I might be wrong, but my understanding has always been that esoteric refers to that which is advanced and specialised and not necessarily hidden, that it is usually difficult to understand or to remember. Occult for me is that which is hidden or secret and not necessarily difficult to understand or to remember once you have been given the eyes to see and the ears to hear as my teacher always say. And this is where Tantra falls for me under occult. Yes, there may be an esoteric and exoteric side to it as well, all just veils depending on your undertsanding and where you are on your path. __________________ Blessings & Om's Pandara _____________________________________________ Serve, Love, Give, Purify, Meditate, Realise. - Swami Sivanada

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11-25-2007, 08:33 AM	#1
Hubert saptashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 755	Is tantra the esoteric teaching of India ? I mean the Vedas, hinduism being exoteric, and tantra being esoteric ? I had this idea when I learnt that in India tantra is often associated with spells and black magic.

11-25-2007, 09:15 AM	#3
Hubert saptashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 755	I thought esoteric meant the same thing ... On the usage of word "occult", I was prepared to not associate more with it than it means, as one of Rudolf Steiner's book is called "The occult science". Usually by occult, people mean some truth hidden by the will of man ... but it is not more hidden than writing is to an analphabet, hidden by the incapacity in understanding of the seeker, and not by others.

11-27-2007, 06:54 AM	#5
Mirjana Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 269	Hi Hubert, according to Dr. Feuerstein in a book The Yoga Tradition, masters of Tantra or Tantrism proposed a new answer and a new style of spirituality in the opening centuries of the first millennium C.E. Their techings are embodied in the Tantras. They are dedicated to the feminine psychocosmic principle, or Shakti. Goddess worship, which is central to many Tantric schools, existed already in ancient Vedic times. The scope topics discussed in the Tantras is cosiderable. They deal with the creation and history of the world; the names and functions of a great variety of male and female deities and other higher beings; the types of ritual worship, magic, sorcery and diviation, esoteric physiology (the mapping of the subtle or psychic body), the awakening of the mysterious serpent power (kundalini-shakti), techniques of bodily and mental purification, the nature of enlightenment, and not least, sacred sexuality. The word is derived from the root tan, meaning "to extend, stretch". It is generally interpreted as " that by which knowledge/understanding is extended, spread out". A second meaning of the word tantra is simply "book" or "text". Thus a tantra can be defined as a text that broadens understanding to the point where genuine wisdom arises. The great Tantric formula, which is fundamental also to Mahayana Buddhism, is "samsara equals nirvana". That is to say, the conditional or phenomenal world is coessential with the transcendental Being-Consciousness-Bliss. Therefore, enlightenment is not a matter of leaving the world, or of killing one's natural impulses. Rather, it is a matter of envisioning the lower reality as contained in and coalescing with the higher reality, and of allowing the higher reality to transform the lower reality. Thus, the keynote of Tantra is integration - the integration of the self with the Self, of bodily existence with the spiritual reality. It is important to realize that the Tantric revolution was not the product of mere philosophical speculation. Tantrism is intensely practical. It is, above all, a practice of realization or what is called sadhana. Thus Yoga is central to it. Historically, Tantra can be understood as a dialectical response to the often abstract approach of Advaita Vedanta, which was and still is dominant philosophy of the hindu elite. Tantra was a grassroots movement, and many, if not most, of its early protagonists hailed from the castes at the bottom of the social pyramid in India. They were responding to a widely felt need for a more practical orientation that would integrate the lofty metaphysical ideals of nondualism with down-to-earth procedures for living a sanctified life without necessarily abandoning one's belief in the local deities and age-old rituals for worshiping them. As far as I know Hatha Yoga comes from the tantric stream. I hope this is a bit interesting for you. Friendly greetings

11-27-2007, 07:45 AM	#6
Hubert saptashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 755	I see. Thank you for your time and effort spent in presenting this. I have some thoughts on this this is not the time to share them.