Yoga row between Indian Yogis and Western Yogis

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Yoga row between Indian purists and Western 'free-form'
A leading yoga master has called on the Indian government to regulate the discipline after a row over Western teachers practicing suggestive routines in skimpy costumes at the world's biggest yoga festival.

Californian yoga mistress Shiva Rea is said to have courted controversy during a session at the world's biggest yoga festival

A session led by the popular Californian yoga mistress Shiva Rea, in which she was reported to have writhed suggestively in low cut trousers, promoted a walkout by traditionalists who reject her use of 'trance dance' music and 'free-form' movements.

An American 'Kundalini' yoga teacher ? who has taught Madonna and is followed by fellow Sikh convert Alexandra Aitken, the daughter of disgraced former Conservative minister Jonathan Aitken ? also courted controversy when her followers chanted 'Allelulia' at the end of a session.

Yoga has been dominated by Indian Hindu gurus for thousands of years, but the arrival of the Beatles in the holy city of Rishikesh to study meditation with the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in the late 1960s sparked an invasion of spiritual tourists. Many of then still come to Rishikesh, by the holy River Ganges, to study yoga from its masters and become teachers themselves.

But according to gurus like Yogi Ram, founder Trika Yoga and Rishikesh's Kala Ashram, they have abandoned its spirituality and transformed it into a crass business.

"The spread of yoga has brought both good and bad things to the traditional art form. It has benefited thousands of people seeking peace of mind and health but at the same time those who have commercialised yoga.

#2

I am not sure about this free flow Yoga movement in the West myself. Afterall, Yoga is to India what kung fu is to China, why not teach us as it is suppose to be taught in its traditional style as the lofty spiritual science it is suppose to be. I don’t see the need to improvise a perfectly working science. If ain’t broken, don’t fix it.

#3

It horses for courses. If I want to add a Kung Fu move to my Mixed Martial Arts, it’s my right to do so, and same applies with my yoga. It’s my martial art, my yoga, my life, and I can do with it what I like.

#4

Looks like a journalist desperately seeking a story , article does not give enough information for any informed opinion . Although there is of course a subject for discussion here.
I know a much juicier story , but Im not telling !

#5

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;53967]It horses for courses. If I want to add a Kung Fu move to my Mixed Martial Arts, it’s my right to do so, and same applies with my yoga. It’s my martial art, my yoga, my life, and I can do with it what I like.[/QUOTE]

You surely can do what you like , whether that is yoga is another matter ,not for me to judge. As far as im aware you are not calling yourself a yoga teacher / guru which makes this slightly different perhaps.

#6

[QUOTE=charliedharma;53969]You surely can do what you like , whether that is yoga is another matter ,not for me to judge. As far as im aware you are not calling yourself a yoga teacher / guru which makes this slightly different perhaps.[/QUOTE]

Actually I’m beginning to realize what I do may not actually be ‘yoga’. But unfortunately there is no such thing as ‘asanas’ There’s no asana classes or asana forums. I guess you could say I do asana instead of yoga… but in Australia… that’s what they call yoga anyway.

#7

What’s laughable is that the commercialization of yoga began in India by Indian yogi opportunists. Plus, fundamentalists are always getting their shorts in a knot - whether on the mid east, southern US, or India. Remember the over-reaction when Richard Gere kissed some bollywood actress a few years back?

#8

THAT TART!

#9

[QUOTE=The Scales;53973]

THAT TART![/QUOTE]

Why did the word 'tantric' just pop in to my head??

#10

If that’s not fundamentally spiritual, then I’m missing the point entirely :wink:

#11

http://www.spiritvoyage.com/blog/index.php/shiva-rea-and-gurmukh-find-controversy-at-international-yoga-festival-rishikesh/

Above is a link to spirit voyage website that gives quite a different view of what happened at the festival, including a response from Shiva herself. Even those in attendance and the event organizers confirmed she was wearing long pants and tee shirt.

An age old dilemma I’m afraid. I can understand purists wanting to maintain yoga in its purist sense, but the very meaning of Yoga is to Yoke or Join. So it is natural for yoga to evolve and spread (Yoke) with the west. While yoga should be practiced with respect, does it really matter what you wear? Is someone less spiritual or yoga-like if the rise on their pants is too low?

And even though that picture comes up when googling Shiva Rea, it doesn’t look like her at all.

#12

Well, it could be said that women being forbidden to practice yoga by Hindu authority for thousands of years is a perversion of yoga.

The problems in yoga today aren’t confined to ‘east’ and ‘west,’ and aren’t anything new. A bigger problem that needs to addressed is the fact that many Indian yoga teachers, quite simply can’t control themselves around women. So if Yogi Ram feels inclined to go on a quest to wipe out the perversions in the practice, maybe he could start there.

The yoga festival in Risikesh is a very shallow affair, lacking depth and sincerity. Its tourism, and makes the Parmarth corporation plenty of money. But this is something that happens all over the world.

#13

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;53971]Actually I’m beginning to realize what I do may not actually be ‘yoga’. But unfortunately there is no such thing as ‘asanas’ There’s no asana classes or asana forums. I guess you could say I do asana instead of yoga… but in Australia… that’s what they call yoga anyway.[/QUOTE]

Dear Yogi Adam,

There is a Sanskrit term in what you are doing, as you said “it may not be yoga”, a more suitable term may be ‘bhoga’ – which means worldly experience. Don’t they sounded similar with “ga” at the end?

So for differentiation we have bhoga forums, bhoga teachers…

:slight_smile:

#14

Parmarth Niketan blast their ridiculous classes out on loudspeakers at high volume, disturbing the other ashrams in the area, some of which might be a little more sincere in their practice. Its tourism, and makes the Parmarth corporation plenty of money. They have no problem glamorizing yoga.

To focus on ‘skimpy clothing’ is ludicrous. Saying that, women must be aware that there is a high degree of sexism in India, and when practicing its best to cover up. Its ridiculous and I’m highly against it. But it avoids problems.

#15

I think the deeper issue here is the new age bastardization of Yoga, leading to all kinds of bizaree Yogas appearing like Yingyang Yoga, Hot Yoga, Christian Yoga, Kabbalah Yoga etc.
Rather than preserving the traditional Yoga as the science of spiritual development it was suppose to be, and thus to be taken as a serious discipline. Like Kung fu is for self-defense. It is diluted, mixed with all sorts of stuff, weakening the discipline. Hence, I think it is important that there exists an official regulation of Yoga, to stop people from misapplying it.

I also agree that Shiva Rea should have respected the civil code of a place like Rishikesh, where dressing as she is use to is considered indecent exposure. Similarly, Snatam Kaur should not be saying “Alleua” in a Hindu city. It is like me going to the Mecca and saying, “Har har Mahadeva” or going to the Vatican and saying, “Allah-u-Akbar” Just because you’re a yogi does not exempt you from respecting the civil code of a place.

#16

Whenever you get into a discussion of what people “should be doing”, then the issue becomes moot. People will do what they wish to do. If, by your judgment, it is a bastardization of your beliefs, it is ‘too bad, so sad’ - as regretful as that may seem to the believer.

It is the always the wise choice to preserve your beliefs and practices in your own way, and not project on to other beings. That way, you can only disappoint yourself.

#17

When the history of Yoga will be written 25 years from now, the present-day wild adaptation will be referred as the ‘initial phase of revolution – the Liberal phase.’ (ref: the French Revolution). Yoga practitioners all over the world are growing in numbers and trying to pull Yoga out of the traditionalists’ closets. But, once they have it, they don’t know what to do with it. Since they haven’t acquired the Yoga knowledge from self-realization, or even from a real Master, the real potential is never known or appreciated.

A conveyor-belt production of Yoga teachers has proliferated Yoga but it has lost direction and left it defined too narrowly. That a one-year infant in Yoga can turn around and teach it to others, is its greatest tragedy. In the absence of a central body to regulate Yoga, each one is sovereign. As a result, instead of the teacher and the practitioner rising to the true glory of Yoga, Yoga is brought down and distorted to fit the limits of the novices. No doubt there are real Masters. But, there are also some shrewd people in between who are neither Masters nor novices. Realizing that Yoga is as orphaned as the internet with nobody holding the IP rights, they have cultivated individual styles to offer a glaring visibility. True Yoga remains drowned in this crowd of competing brands, which are Yoga’s own images in the cracked mirrors.

Many people in India are no exception. Swami Vivekanand was accepted as one of the greatest spiritual leaders only after he was first recognized in the West or Satyajit Ray required an international stamp of greatness for that to be seen in India. Likewise, a steady influx of ‘foreigners’ has suddenly highlighted Yoga’s worth that otherwise would have taken many more years to dawn. A mere cultural heritage does not make all Indians ‘Yogis’ by default, when ironically the prospering nation is hell-bent on following the materialistic model of the Western-style prosperity.

But, the traditionalists’ anguish against the Shiva Reas and Snatam Kaurs of the world is misplaced too. These apparent “excesses” only signal the radical phase that is closely following in the phased Yoga revolution. For a New Order to emerge for Yoga this experimentation is inevitable. Sage Patanjali’s road-map hasn’t changed for centuries because instead of defining the road itself he has defined the milestones. How to reach them has always been upto the practitioner with self-realization as the only guide. Yoga is becoming a mass movement first, depth and quality will join eventually. Then a Yogi with realization of the higher and higher truth will take no time in recognizing the theatrics of branded Yoga. And when that happens, Yoga would have undergone one more reincarnation and returned with all its innate vitality, beyond all of the present conflicts including East vs West.

#18

I think this is what I have realised about Westerners over time, they do not respect the unity of anything. There is a tendency within the Western mind to appropriate anything, and mix and match it with other things(so-called free-form) without any sense of order. And it is justified by attitudes that, “We can, so we will”

But to the rest of the world Westerners look like people who struggle with notions like respect. Like for example respecting the cultural forms of another culture. The West think it is their right to appropriate anything and everything from other cultures - take whatever they want and do whatever they want with it. These other cultures, out of their good will teach these Western people their cultural forms, but seldom do they realise that the Western student is not going to appreciate its purity and will do whatever they want with it.

Unfortunately, due this to immature attitude of Western people, other cultures are starting to move towards protecting their cultural forms, such as by demanding government regulation and patenting them. I welcome these actions, in light of how arrogant Western attitudes are. I am really starting to see why the rest of the world hates the West as I converse more and more with Western people vis-a-vis other cultures.

#19

A yogi would not be offended by ‘Alleu’ or ‘Allah-u-Akbar.’ Why would they be? Yoga is not affiliated, and does not belong, to any religion.

What is traditional yoga? A practice only open to Hindu men?
And who should govern yoga? Should Indian police be banging on ashram doors demanding baksheesh for 'incorrect yoga practice?'
Should India follow China’s example, and imprison anyone who doesn’t follow the strict rules on what you can and cannot practice?

If people want to take classes that are not authentic, then that is their decision. You can’t dictate what people do, as long as they are not harming themselves or others it is their right to do what they want. If they want to give their hard earned money to the yogic equivalent of dodgy insurance salesmen, then they are free to do so.

Authentic practices are there for those who seek. For example, The Iyengar Institute remain true to their message and guru. Evolution is such that any ‘weak branches’ will fall away. The trunk of yoga will always remain strong, and the practice will continue to evolve.

As for the ‘civil code,’ I find little civilized, healthy or spiritual in forcing women to cover up when men can dress how they like. But as stated before, it is best for women to do so in order to avoid being troubled.

#20

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54014]I think this is what I have realised about Westerners over time, they do not respect the unity of anything. There is a tendency within the Western mind to appropriate anything, and mix and match it with other things(so-called free-form) without any sense of order. And it is justified by attitudes that, “We can, so we will”

But to the rest of the world Westerners look like people who struggle with notions like respect. Like for example respecting the cultural forms of another culture. The West think it is their right to appropriate anything and everything from other cultures - take whatever they want and do whatever they want with it. These other cultures, out of their good will teach these Western people their cultural forms, but seldom do they realise that the Western student is not going to appreciate its purity and will do whatever they want with it.

Unfortunately, due this to immature attitude of Western people, other cultures are starting to move towards protecting their cultural forms, such as by demanding government regulation and patenting them. I welcome these actions, in light of how arrogant Western attitudes are. I am really starting to see why the rest of the world hates the West as I converse more and more with Western people vis-a-vis other cultures.[/QUOTE]

The United States isn’t called the “melting pot” for nothing. Her citizens come from almost every country there is.

So from a genealogical point of view - unless your native american - your an immigrant.