Shoulderstand and twists

Questioner · 04-26-2002, 10:17 PM

First, I have read in Yoga for Dummies by Larry Payne that half-Shoulderstand is not safe for people who are moderately overweight. Most of the teachers I know don't feel this is true if there is adequate preparation and counterposes and the student wants to do the pose. So, do you feel it is OK for people overweight to do the pose or not?

Second, when doing a seated or standing twist, does the pelvis move or remain stationary and the spine spiral out of this base. Judith Lasater in the article on the sacrum in the last copy of Yoga Journal said the pelvis and sacrum must move as a unit, which makes sense. But with an abdominal contraction to support the sacrum, which is what I learned from Gary Kraftsow, neither the sacrum nor pelvis moves. So I don't know which is the most safe and stable. Perhaps I've misunderstood one or both of them. Thanks you for addressing these questions and for making this type of forum available to all of us. Sharon

Mukunda · 04-26-2002, 10:21 PM

First, in general I agree with your opinion. My concerns for the cautions to Shoulderstand’s challenges are more about those with circulatory concerns (high blood pressure, diabetes, glaucoma, etc) and stamina of the shoulders adductors and extensors (mid trapezius, triceps, latissimus) to hold one’s weight. If those factors are checked out then overweight is not a problem. Shoulderstand can in fact help to reduce weight but the shoulder muscles mentioned need to be strengthened before bearing weight for longer than one minute. Larry’s comments are important yet they are meant as a caution for beginners and beginning teachers.

Second question, the sacroiliac does move and should be encouraged to move albeit subtly. (Read Judith’s article in Oct. YJ see page 110, third paragraph). When it moves in the wrong direction or not at all there are many adjacent regions subject to pain. Increased flexibility there is a problem. An Ayurvedic perspective of the underlying cause is increased and/or displaced vata. Vata rules motion and comfort. When changed due to mental, emotional, or physical instability the sacroiliac destabilizes. I find Judith’s and Gary’s comments wise for someone who is a beginner or a teacher concerned with giving safe instructions to a class.

For therapists however, the analysis of the client’s sacral motions needs to be done before giving corrective exercises. Remember there is a major difference between a teacher’s role and therapists. Teachers are only trained to adjust students out of pain. These adjustments do not cure or treat, they simply point out that pain is to be avoided (see Yoga Sutras II, 16). Therapists are trained to understand the root causes of pain and help the client to be free of the root causes.

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04-26-2002, 10:17 PM	#1
Questioner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 479	First, I have read in Yoga for Dummies by Larry Payne that half-Shoulderstand is not safe for people who are moderately overweight. Most of the teachers I know don't feel this is true if there is adequate preparation and counterposes and the student wants to do the pose. So, do you feel it is OK for people overweight to do the pose or not? Second, when doing a seated or standing twist, does the pelvis move or remain stationary and the spine spiral out of this base. Judith Lasater in the article on the sacrum in the last copy of Yoga Journal said the pelvis and sacrum must move as a unit, which makes sense. But with an abdominal contraction to support the sacrum, which is what I learned from Gary Kraftsow, neither the sacrum nor pelvis moves. So I don't know which is the most safe and stable. Perhaps I've misunderstood one or both of them. Thanks you for addressing these questions and for making this type of forum available to all of us. Sharon

04-26-2002, 10:21 PM	#2
Mukunda SYTherapy Creator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Yoga Therapist and trainer Posts: 1,068	First, in general I agree with your opinion. My concerns for the cautions to Shoulderstand’s challenges are more about those with circulatory concerns (high blood pressure, diabetes, glaucoma, etc) and stamina of the shoulders adductors and extensors (mid trapezius, triceps, latissimus) to hold one’s weight. If those factors are checked out then overweight is not a problem. Shoulderstand can in fact help to reduce weight but the shoulder muscles mentioned need to be strengthened before bearing weight for longer than one minute. Larry’s comments are important yet they are meant as a caution for beginners and beginning teachers. Second question, the sacroiliac does move and should be encouraged to move albeit subtly. (Read Judith’s article in Oct. YJ see page 110, third paragraph). When it moves in the wrong direction or not at all there are many adjacent regions subject to pain. Increased flexibility there is a problem. An Ayurvedic perspective of the underlying cause is increased and/or displaced vata. Vata rules motion and comfort. When changed due to mental, emotional, or physical instability the sacroiliac destabilizes. I find Judith’s and Gary’s comments wise for someone who is a beginner or a teacher concerned with giving safe instructions to a class. For therapists however, the analysis of the client’s sacral motions needs to be done before giving corrective exercises. Remember there is a major difference between a teacher’s role and therapists. Teachers are only trained to adjust students out of pain. These adjustments do not cure or treat, they simply point out that pain is to be avoided (see Yoga Sutras II, 16). Therapists are trained to understand the root causes of pain and help the client to be free of the root causes.