Bhastrika and enlightenment?

Dream Yogi · 11-07-2009, 04:41 PM

Sivananda writes that Bhastrika is one of the most beneficial if not the most pranayam, and will convey all benefits that the others will,

now

when I do Bhastrika, it makes my body tingle, and purifies the nadis then I assume this is an indication of,

but then it goes away in time, so I would need to do an intenseive Bhastrika practice, say, for hours and hours and hours, if I want to attain liberation that way, right?

BurrenYoga · 11-07-2009, 04:59 PM

Hi Dream Yogi,
I am not sure how long you are practicing yoga, nor whether you have access to a qualified and experienced teacher, so i can only answer this question in a general way.

All the ancient texts and experienced yoga teachers teach that all pranayama practice should be practiced very gradually starting off with gentle practices first, also practicng asanas, and hopefully some of the cleansing practices such as the 6 shatkarmas, possibly modifying one's diet or more preferably through practicing a broad range of asanas, cleansings, pranayama your whole being will begin to reject substances and habits which are not beneficial to you, and gradually negative habits and foods/drinks/other substances which are negative to one's own personal syatem will gradually drop away in a natural gradual way.

During my own teacher training (i have been practing meditation over 30 years, yoga over 20 years) our teachers directed us not to begin bhastrika until we did other preparatory pranayama techniques daily for over 1 year. (We had the good fortune of a two year teacher training guided by two very experienced teachers).

In this way, progress comes more easily, without distuptive changes, without unwanted psychological or other effects.

If one dives into strong pranayama practices (and strong bhastrika of over 100 rounds of breath, and more than 3 rounds of this) for a beginner, it can produce undesirable effects as one's mind stream and inner energies are not sufficently prepared for this.

I know this is not the answer that many people in this modern world want to hear.

Most people want result quickly, and want to take the fastest route to get there.

Personally i feel is that the answer is actually right here within the present moment. There is no need to try so hard, and so impatiently to achieve something aspired to within one's mind... within one's imagination or concepts created by the mind.

I believe it is far better to start slowly, enjoy each moment within the more gentle practices, and gradually the path will unfold. No rush to get anywhere else, other than deeper within the present moment in a more heartfelt and clear way.

I can't give you direct advice, as i don't know that maybe you are already practicn gmany years and have already very clear channels etc.

I wish you well on your path.

Best Wishes,
Dave

Dream Yogi · 11-07-2009, 05:58 PM

i find this cautious approach almost worthless because it makes you an arm-chair yogi,

Yogananda wouldn't hear anything of the sort of this, and confined to rigorous kriya, and his total liberation he had to show for it.

now why would you condition people to be lazy and call it safety ? there is no wrong in kundalini waking up, because we stoke it at the pace we progress, and so the result is gradual,

Sivananda gives no such explications as to not do Bhastrika as be published it freely ,

now you say all these things, have you any proof of them being true whatsoever, that intensive Bhastrika only works if you've been a tiny insignificant amount of minor pranayama for a year?

there is reasoning in your reasoning that i can find agreement with but you don't know who i am, so how can this prescription make sense?

I find Sivanandas urge to (right in his publication about Prayanayma ) "go for it, why wait, this is your life!" much more inspiring than "well, now just take it really really really tiny, don't worry about it "

TonyTamer · 11-07-2009, 06:32 PM

Without being grounded in complete exhalation ( most people retain some breath ) you can get high blood pressure and without proper nervous system strengthening there are reports of a rough trip to the top of the mountain. I rushed it myself and regret it; if I'd been in worse shape and older, who knows , I could of had a heart attack. I certainly didn't advance any except in my knowledge of what not to do. I don't know what's right for you but if you want instant enlightenment take LSD -25 and spend some time in a desensitivity tank like Dr. John Lilly in The Eye of the Hurricane. Now that's extreme. Ask gardeners who will get better results, those who repeatedly prepare the soil for the seed, loosening the clods and pulling weeds and rocks out or those who throw their seed to unprepared ground heedless of what the books say. You can lead a Horticulture but you can't make her think.

InnerAthlete · 11-07-2009, 10:04 PM

I'm having a difficult time understanding why someone would initiate a post, solicit feedback from members of the community, then classify that feedback as worthless.

While this may be ONLY my perception and it may be clouded by my own challenges, obstacles, and issues it appears to reflect poorly on one's practice (when that practice is yoga) if there is no ability to see a myriad of possibilities.

More specifically to the content of the OP...
If one finds a particular advocacy to be "for them" then there's not much reason to wander from that path and solicit the feedback of others. If Sivananda says "go for it" and that is for you, then go for it. No worries for me. Each has their own path and subsequent lessons.

While what Burren says resonates with me (for many reasons) and suits my personal practice and path - it may not be so for others. And I respect mindful choice no matter what direction that choices moves toward (for that person choosing). But I'd likely have offered up the same feedback.

Pragmatically speaking it is also possible that one's pranayama practice deprives the brain of requisite oxygen and the byproducts of such deprivation could be confused with evolution, spirituality, the cleansing of nadis, or just generally a perception of "How great am I. How amazing is my practice. I AM A YOGI". As practitioners it behooves us to constantly consider opposites, constantly look at that which appears true, constantly examine the self in such a way as to not be deceived by a cloaked or masquerading ego.

To me, this is the real work of yoga, not floating in the ether and looking down upon humanity's suffering.

Pandara · 11-07-2009, 11:42 PM

Dear DreamYogi,

As a student of yoga who comes from the lineage of Swami Sivanada and who has studied Swamiji's book The Science of Pranayama extensively, I must say I can not recall that he ever said that in his book what you claim. Furthermore Swamiji warns explicitly always against going to extremes, in fact Swamiji was totally against extremes and always recommended the golden middle path which err or caution and safety rather on satisfying your ego to achieve something quickly.

I see in another post you state that you have a guru. My question, why don't you ask him these questions?

Paramahamsa Yogananda could do the things he did, becasue he was an advanced soul. Do you recognise the same qualities of Yogananda in yourself?

prasad · 11-08-2009, 12:26 AM

Dear dream yogi,

namaste,

firstly i would like to know , how you do your Bratika. There are a number of ways brastika could be performed.
secondly, one must do extensive study and research before following any one person .
i suppose you are doing hatha yoga. have you read and understood the so called text books on yoga written between 12to 14 century.eg hatha Yoga Pradipika, shiv samhita or Grahand samhita.
hath yoga pradipika says yoga is like riding a tiger. You might suffer irrecoverable damage some times to your self.

Xamilo · 11-08-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InnerAthlete

I'm having a difficult time understanding why someone would initiate a post, solicit feedback from members of the community, then classify that feedback as worthless.

Indeed. Even if it is to be found worthless, one should take what could be beneficial and discard the rest, but not contradict opinions. If we were to be discussing scientific facts, then known source literature would do the rick, but when it comes to personal feelings, opinions, you can't talk about "right" or "wrong", but rather what to be taken and what to be left behind...

Hubert · 11-08-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InnerAthlete

Pragmatically speaking it is also possible that one's pranayama practice deprives the brain of requisite oxygen and the byproducts of such deprivation could be confused with evolution, spirituality, the cleansing of nadis, or just generally a perception of "How great am I. How amazing is my practice. I AM A YOGI".

Instead, how about: How great is that I AM. Amazing.

Babananda · 03-02-2010, 10:18 AM

OM,

Pranayama and enlightenment have nothing to do with each other. Pranayama is about flushing ones being and body's different channels with prana which vibrationally isn't very high but of course for a beginner yogi it has it's significant place.

Tuning into peace, presence, into that experience is beyond prana or pranayama.

Li Hongzhi said wisely, "Qi (energy) is nothing" and with that he meant that prana is nothing compared to the vastness of the Spirit (which experience is being enlightened).

Whether one is Yogananda or anyone else, I suppose one can not speed up into enlightenment because then there is a goal and the goal never comes, the future never happens when one is waiting for it (one ends up waiting and waiting, doing more and more pranayama or mantras or whatever). In this way one can win the Olympics but not realize the present moment and root ones living experience into that which is enlightenment.

Hugging Mother Amma hit the nail when She said that, "Spiritual life is not about going forward but going backward".

The experience of Peace and Love - enlightenment - never comes. It happens.

Babaji's Love,
-Babananda

11-07-2009, 04:59 PM	#2
BurrenYoga dvi Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ireland Posts: 2	Hi Dream Yogi, I am not sure how long you are practicing yoga, nor whether you have access to a qualified and experienced teacher, so i can only answer this question in a general way. All the ancient texts and experienced yoga teachers teach that all pranayama practice should be practiced very gradually starting off with gentle practices first, also practicng asanas, and hopefully some of the cleansing practices such as the 6 shatkarmas, possibly modifying one's diet or more preferably through practicing a broad range of asanas, cleansings, pranayama your whole being will begin to reject substances and habits which are not beneficial to you, and gradually negative habits and foods/drinks/other substances which are negative to one's own personal syatem will gradually drop away in a natural gradual way. During my own teacher training (i have been practing meditation over 30 years, yoga over 20 years) our teachers directed us not to begin bhastrika until we did other preparatory pranayama techniques daily for over 1 year. (We had the good fortune of a two year teacher training guided by two very experienced teachers). In this way, progress comes more easily, without distuptive changes, without unwanted psychological or other effects. If one dives into strong pranayama practices (and strong bhastrika of over 100 rounds of breath, and more than 3 rounds of this) for a beginner, it can produce undesirable effects as one's mind stream and inner energies are not sufficently prepared for this. I know this is not the answer that many people in this modern world want to hear. Most people want result quickly, and want to take the fastest route to get there. Personally i feel is that the answer is actually right here within the present moment. There is no need to try so hard, and so impatiently to achieve something aspired to within one's mind... within one's imagination or concepts created by the mind. I believe it is far better to start slowly, enjoy each moment within the more gentle practices, and gradually the path will unfold. No rush to get anywhere else, other than deeper within the present moment in a more heartfelt and clear way. I can't give you direct advice, as i don't know that maybe you are already practicn gmany years and have already very clear channels etc. I wish you well on your path. Best Wishes, Dave __________________ Burren Yoga and Meditation Centre, Ireland

11-07-2009, 10:04 PM	#5
InnerAthlete Mostly Good Egg Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,128	I'm having a difficult time understanding why someone would initiate a post, solicit feedback from members of the community, then classify that feedback as worthless. While this may be ONLY my perception and it may be clouded by my own challenges, obstacles, and issues it appears to reflect poorly on one's practice (when that practice is yoga) if there is no ability to see a myriad of possibilities. More specifically to the content of the OP... If one finds a particular advocacy to be "for them" then there's not much reason to wander from that path and solicit the feedback of others. If Sivananda says "go for it" and that is for you, then go for it. No worries for me. Each has their own path and subsequent lessons. While what Burren says resonates with me (for many reasons) and suits my personal practice and path - it may not be so for others. And I respect mindful choice no matter what direction that choices moves toward (for that person choosing). But I'd likely have offered up the same feedback. Pragmatically speaking it is also possible that one's pranayama practice deprives the brain of requisite oxygen and the byproducts of such deprivation could be confused with evolution, spirituality, the cleansing of nadis, or just generally a perception of "How great am I. How amazing is my practice. I AM A YOGI". As practitioners it behooves us to constantly consider opposites, constantly look at that which appears true, constantly examine the self in such a way as to not be deceived by a cloaked or masquerading ego. To me, this is the real work of yoga, not floating in the ether and looking down upon humanity's suffering. __________________ Gordon Kaplan Certified Purna Yoga Teacher (CPYT) Yoga Alliance RYT-500 International Association of Yoga Therapists (IAYT) M.S. Kinesiology, Indiana University http://www.teamyoga.com http://www.yogamojodojo.com http://www.innerathlete.net/forum

11-07-2009, 11:42 PM	#6
Pandara Evolving Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pretoria, South Africa Posts: 1,275	Dear DreamYogi, As a student of yoga who comes from the lineage of Swami Sivanada and who has studied Swamiji's book The Science of Pranayama extensively, I must say I can not recall that he ever said that in his book what you claim. Furthermore Swamiji warns explicitly always against going to extremes, in fact Swamiji was totally against extremes and always recommended the golden middle path which err or caution and safety rather on satisfying your ego to achieve something quickly. I see in another post you state that you have a guru. My question, why don't you ask him these questions? Paramahamsa Yogananda could do the things he did, becasue he was an advanced soul. Do you recognise the same qualities of Yogananda in yourself? __________________ Blessings & Om's Pandara _____________________________________________ [URL]http://www.oneyogalife.wordpress.com[/URL] Live everyday as if it is a miracle - Einstein Last edited by Pandara; 11-07-2009 at 11:51 PM. Reason: Add a sentence.

03-02-2010, 10:18 AM	#10
Babananda catúr Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Greece, Crete & Finland Posts: 4	OM, Pranayama and enlightenment have nothing to do with each other. Pranayama is about flushing ones being and body's different channels with prana which vibrationally isn't very high but of course for a beginner yogi it has it's significant place. Tuning into peace, presence, into that experience is beyond prana or pranayama. Li Hongzhi said wisely, "Qi (energy) is nothing" and with that he meant that prana is nothing compared to the vastness of the Spirit (which experience is being enlightened). Whether one is Yogananda or anyone else, I suppose one can not speed up into enlightenment because then there is a goal and the goal never comes, the future never happens when one is waiting for it (one ends up waiting and waiting, doing more and more pranayama or mantras or whatever). In this way one can win the Olympics but not realize the present moment and root ones living experience into that which is enlightenment. Hugging Mother Amma hit the nail when She said that, "Spiritual life is not about going forward but going backward". The experience of Peace and Love - enlightenment - never comes. It happens. Babaji's Love, -Babananda __________________ "Ambe Sivam - Love is Divine" - Siddha Thirumular www.sundarayoga.fi www.huu.fi

11-07-2009, 04:41 PM	#1
Dream Yogi trimshát Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 38	Sivananda writes that Bhastrika is one of the most beneficial if not the most pranayam, and will convey all benefits that the others will, now when I do Bhastrika, it makes my body tingle, and purifies the nadis then I assume this is an indication of, but then it goes away in time, so I would need to do an intenseive Bhastrika practice, say, for hours and hours and hours, if I want to attain liberation that way, right?

11-07-2009, 05:58 PM	#3
Dream Yogi trimshát Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 38	i find this cautious approach almost worthless because it makes you an arm-chair yogi, Yogananda wouldn't hear anything of the sort of this, and confined to rigorous kriya, and his total liberation he had to show for it. now why would you condition people to be lazy and call it safety ? there is no wrong in kundalini waking up, because we stoke it at the pace we progress, and so the result is gradual, Sivananda gives no such explications as to not do Bhastrika as be published it freely , now you say all these things, have you any proof of them being true whatsoever, that intensive Bhastrika only works if you've been a tiny insignificant amount of minor pranayama for a year? there is reasoning in your reasoning that i can find agreement with but you don't know who i am, so how can this prescription make sense? I find Sivanandas urge to (right in his publication about Prayanayma ) "go for it, why wait, this is your life!" much more inspiring than "well, now just take it really really really tiny, don't worry about it "

11-07-2009, 06:32 PM	#4
TonyTamer shatá Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 199	Without being grounded in complete exhalation ( most people retain some breath ) you can get high blood pressure and without proper nervous system strengthening there are reports of a rough trip to the top of the mountain. I rushed it myself and regret it; if I'd been in worse shape and older, who knows , I could of had a heart attack. I certainly didn't advance any except in my knowledge of what not to do. I don't know what's right for you but if you want instant enlightenment take LSD -25 and spend some time in a desensitivity tank like Dr. John Lilly in The Eye of the Hurricane. Now that's extreme. Ask gardeners who will get better results, those who repeatedly prepare the soil for the seed, loosening the clods and pulling weeds and rocks out or those who throw their seed to unprepared ground heedless of what the books say. You can lead a Horticulture but you can't make her think.

11-08-2009, 12:26 AM	#7
prasad catvaarimshát Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: india Posts: 48	Dear dream yogi, namaste, firstly i would like to know , how you do your Bratika. There are a number of ways brastika could be performed. secondly, one must do extensive study and research before following any one person . i suppose you are doing hatha yoga. have you read and understood the so called text books on yoga written between 12to 14 century.eg hatha Yoga Pradipika, shiv samhita or Grahand samhita. hath yoga pradipika says yoga is like riding a tiger. You might suffer irrecoverable damage some times to your self.