Bhramcharya

[yalgaar]

I am getting more and more confused on the actual meaning of it. I would appreciate if somebody could throw more light on it. Also is there any difference between how bramcharya is followed by male as compared to a female; how is it follwed my married person as compared to un-married person?

[InnerAthlete]

What was your teacher's reply to this?

[yalgaar]

Originally Posted by InnerAthlete

What was your teacher's reply to this?

How does that matter?

[tina]

be pure , not fooling around , divine is always at heart never into sex life for yogi yogini, after marry always faithful to husband or wife.

[panoramix]

Hi yalgaar,

Brahmacharya is sensual continence, not only sexual.
You're meant to not indulge in sensory pleasures, in order to keep your mind focused in your spiritual sadhana.

A dispersed mind can achieve no meditation.

OM

[lashannasmall]

I agree with Panoramix. Also, you know what they say about opinions right? LOL...Different schools of yoga say different things. That is one of the reasons that Inner Athlete probably responded to talk with your teacher about it. If you don't get a clear answer from your teacher, maybe cruise the internet and find some books and articles on it and see which ones ring true for you.

[InnerAthlete]

Originally Posted by yalgaar

How does that matter?

Response to questions about yama and niyama can vary greatly. Students who study with a myriad of teachers, or who pull from a myriad of sources, can become very confused. Confusion is an impediment to progress on the path of yoga. Clarity is not.

So it only matters if the asker is seeking clarity. Ergo the reason I asked it. If the person you have chosen to teach you yoga tells you that it is abstinence then I do not want to muddy the waters by telling you something else.

Just as a student who says "how do I place my head in Sirsasana" should be asked "what sort of curve do you have in your neck?" so too would it be fecund to know what your mentor has told you thus far. It facilitates an appropriate answer.

[yalgaar]

I am getting yoga instructions from a few teachers. I don't mean dis-respect to anybody but I am not very happy with the instructions from the teachers for many reasons. Prefer not to get into the details, not in this thread.

Of all the teachers I am getting instructions from, my best choice is this forum. I am not getting logical explanation from many that I get here from. This forum is my best teacher for now.

[InnerAthlete]

Ahhh I see. Okay that is very fair and quite helpful. Thank you.

Brahmacharya is wise use of the creative force.

Brahama - creative force, creation, creativity
Acharya - wise one or master

Gary Kraftsow of the Desikachar lineage (viniyoga) said:

'when you are having sex, have it. When you are not, don't.'

[lashannasmall]

I hate to hear that. It is hard to find a good yoga teacher. Have you read the Yoga Sutras of Pantanjali? A good translation is done by Satchidananda (probably spelled wrong). Try that

[core789]

I've heard one description,one definition perhaps, as 'moderation of the senses'.

This applies to such things as food, not just sex.

Self-restraint and self-control is observed. There is something called left-handed tantra where you can turn normal sexual relations into yoga, but this would tend to require a certain degree of accomplishment already achevied(which i would'nt include myself) usually through the integration of other practices.I'm kinda in favour of this one myself, and it demonstrates mastery of, not being a slave to,the sex drive.You can get there ,if you continue your practice in a faithful manner.It leads you out of bondage into great liberation.,wisdom,insight,joy & love and sensory celebration (not aversion or denial) of life. You can enjoy life to it's filluest,have amazing sex, give out love to the world and really evolve spiritualy to higher dimensions. So reallyy you can have it all. Moderation of desire ( though "sex " as well ) ,not sex per se. The act of copulation takes on less significance as every thing we do brings on ecstatic reverie. Our general ongoing engagement with the world is one big continuous orgasm. In some ways our sex is already really going on internally within ut, you see.

I have heard reference to celibacy in relation to bhrmacharya but i don't see it that way, as the need for committment suggests a lack of slef-control(& aversion) and a very denial of our existence and human experience.Plus this is a celebration.We can harness this powerful energy and travel to yet higher new planes of realisation,consciousnesss and energy upliftment.The pranic body can tapped into great reserves and some converted profitably into spiritual energy(ojas) which is very good.

i do think you need a certain level of purification and stability before you can practice say left-handed tantra(prolonged ecstatic love-making without emphasis on orgasm) successfully.The man especially needs prepared as he is generally behind the women in terms of staying ahead of orgasm.(great loss of prana & crash) asana is one useful tool as it tends to promote cardiovascular health and output to extremeities( the man can stay harder for longer, backing off before peaking( pause or if you're really sophisticated stop/pause then imagine visualising sending the energy from the base to the head returning it back down to ground it- the conversion from sexual to spiritual enrgy,ojas probably ooccurs at this point)) while always returniing to higher and higher levels of pleasure while one can fly near the edge but decides not to go over( yes , it becomes more a of a choice). so you see it is neither sensory aversion or indulgence by going all the way. so it can be a fine line that might require a degree of mastery invariably using a combination of yoga practies and a moderate liifestyle)

Hope this helps. I cannot describe how liberating and enlightening incorporating a practice like this can be. At leastthat is an effect it had on me in the past.


I do like IA's description- 'wise master of the creative force.'

[core789]

Regarding 'wise master of the the creative force'

You could think of the creative force as shakti( kundalini) , the sexual energy component residing, naturally, in the pelvis & base.Some tantra techniques can raise them to higher energies, frequencies ,chakras in the head where some undergo conversion into spiritual enrgy(apart from allowing us to stay ahead of orgasm though that is not really or solely their purpose- it does distribute the energy throughout the whole body)- this is very good.

One is master,not slave.

[Asuri]

Georg Feuerstein gives the etymology of the word as brahma + car "to move". He gives the literal translation as "conduct of brahma".

Here is a quote from the Maha-Bharata that seems to validate this:

But he who, leaving off the performance of austerities and pious acts, resting purely in Brahman, being like Brahman, moves in the world - he is called Brahma-Charin (one living moving and having one's being in Brahman).

Like it or not, all of the best known commentators agree that brahmacharya refers specifically to sexual continence, although "conduct of brahma" suggests that a wider interpretation is appropriate.

[Asuri]

Swami Hariharananda Aranya had this to say:

Mere refraining from the sexual act is not continence.Thinking of, talking about, joking, looking intently, secret talk, resolve, attempt and execution are the eight forms of sexual indulgence... Refraining from these eight forms of sexual indulgence is continence.

Swami Hariharananda Aranya was an extreme ascetic. It's easy to see why people don't want to go along with this. Mahatma Ghandi was also known to practice brahmacharya, even though he was married at the age of fourteen. His wife said they had sex only once.

[Asuri]

The Samkhya school includes the practice of Sva (one's own) karma as part of yoga. Sva-karma is the performance of acts prescribed for one's own stage of life. Brahmacharya is appropriate for young people and ascetics who want to practice the highest forms of yoga. For the functioning of society and procreation of the human race, it isn't appropriate for everyone. Married people generally don't practice brahmacharya.

[siva]

Yalgaar,

You might want to ask yourself, at what level do these things become relevant to your life, what stage of practice, how old are you, etc? And then is it practical? Does it make sense? This is where Brahmacharya begins. And then also, will it come about in the course of your practice? If you're devoted to practicing yoga, then yes. If you are at least paying attention, you'll come to understand it all by yourself and at the right time.

Brahmacharya is ultimately about self-preservation, physical, mental, emotional. It's about energy and saving your seed. It's about noticing a preoccupation with your sexual/sensual Self and others, its beauty or its complications, and while there's no Self-denial, you're also not carried away by desire.

But hey, don't let the poetry of life pass you by. If some lovely is giving you an eyeful, you don't have to hide your eyes? And if they're ready to put out, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more..GO FOR IT! Enjoy yourself. You have plenty of time for celibacy and sexual dissatisfaction.

But I don't know about the ladies. From what I have read it's just the opposite, that it's very healthy to be getting it all the time and important to keep them well satisfied. The Toaist philosophy, from what I understand, says sexual energy in women is not lost, that it is reabsorbed (unless they ejaculate, sorry, wee!). And then there's all that hormones and juiciness (excuse me), that are an important part of their health. That makes sense to me, together with avoiding preoccupation, complications or the potential for stress it can pose. I would like to think that means being in love and in a monogamous relationship, but ladies, you tell me.

One last thing, brahmacharya is similar but still different from pratyahara.

peace & love everyone,
siva

[core789]

Originally Posted by Asuri

Like it or not, all of the best known commentators agree that brahmacharya refers specifically to sexual continence,( although "conduct of brahma" suggests that a wider interpretation is appropriate.)

this was not the definition i read( i read 'moderation of the senses') though it had a pretty good explanation possibly rooted in a tantra approach. i think it might have maybe touched on meditation etc. can't remember the link immediately off hand, sorry. it kinda made sense to me .but i have not read such matters widely.

it makes sense to me that everything is potentially game for being a vehicle for self-transformation. and sexual energy can carry a lot of mileage. to ignore (or even deny) would be a great loss in terms of revenue.. in fact kundalini awakeninng has it's very foundation bed-rock,essence in the arousal and re-direction of rising sexual energy. the kundalin is in fact then arguably one's sexual energy redirected ( beyond the dictates of programmed biological evolution) for higher (evolutionary) purposes.

[siva]

core789,

Yes. Kundalini is the humping projected inward.

siva

[panoramix]

Not repressing is very important. Repression might lead to pathologies. One has to play within his natural possibilities, and let himself evolve naturally, without violence against oneself.

In Ken Wilber's words: Evolution is emergence and integration of lower stages, and not repression.

Have a nice day!

[Techne]

I've often wondered if Bhramcharya also applies to whether one posts to the forums immediately, or whether one reads everything well, considers a response, the context, etc. and then chooses whether *or not* one has something to contribute to and further (evolve) the conversation. (and checks their spelling, while they're at it; I just had to add the 'r' in further.)
Ghandi has a grandkid -- I went to college with him -- so there was at least good timing in that "once". I just hope G's wife also had a calling that was abetted by such austerity.
And I am very glad my husband and I do not. Siva, my context on your question -- my emotional and sometimes mental health are greatly supported by my snuggly (and better) life with my husband. I've heard research, too, that women have a neural feedback system that means monogamy (monogandry?) is better than multiple partners. Of which, I am also very glad.

[Asuri]

this was not the definition i read( i read 'moderation of the senses')

I don't now where you read this, and it's not surprising, because people just don't want to accept the true meaning of the word. My philosophy is to try to get the true meaning of the original authors. One is free to accept or reject the teaching, but don't distort the meaning just because you don't accept it.

If you look at the context of the sutra where the teaching of brahmacharya is given, its about the restraint of various types of harmful impulses. Brahmacharya is specifically about the sexual impulse. In the strictest sense, it is about sexual continence, plain and simple. I believe the definition can be broadened to include other types of sexual conduct, such as how one conducts him/her self with members of the opposite sex. But moderation of the senses is way too broad.

I know someone is going to say that sexual desire is not a harmful impulse, but just pick up a newspaper on any given day and you are likely to see reports of all kinds of bad behavior and even violence that results from uncontrolled sexual impulses. Self-control is important, and has lots of positive effects. Wise use of creative force is good.

[Asuri]

in fact kundalini awakeninng has it's very foundation bed-rock,essence in the arousal and re-direction of rising sexual energy. the kundalin is in fact then arguably one's sexual energy redirected

I'm not an expert on kundalini or tantric sexual practices. I've heard that there are certain practices that are supposed to transmute sexual energy into something higher, but I can't speak from experience. But based on what I do know, to say that kundalini is redirected sexual energy is too narrow a definition. Kundalini symbolizes undifferentiated cosmic energy. Sexual energy would be a differentiated form.

[Nichole]

For myself I think of this as meaning to respect the Divine Presence as always being with you. This rendition is for both singles and couples and encourages us to cultivate conduct that conceives of God as always watching you. This entices us to wish to please God, with our righteousness and consideration for others. -- Mukunda Stiles


Mukunda Stiles, for whom this forum was originally created for, spoke briefly on Bramacharya in this thread.

Namaste,
Nichole

[yalgaar]

Let me start by saying thank you very much to all you wonderful people. You guys rock. You guys are my best teacher. Hopefully I would find a guru in real life as well who could guide me in the right direction. But until then I am very happy to have you guys around. There is so much all of you have contributed to my question; there is no way I can thank you enough and express how much I have learned and understood on the subject.

Thanks again.


Love
Yalgaar

[Pious Yoga]

I think brahmacharya as it origins, does not allow one to marry. Strict brahmacharya is followed by living in a life away from all the carnal pleasures of life.

[OmNamoShiva]

BUMP!
Is sexual energy only effect spiritual energy? For example If one constantly engage in sexual activity would it also effect physical enery(weakness etc.)

Thankyou!

[Pandara]

Originally Posted by OmNamoShiva

If one constantly engage in sexual activity would it also effect physical enery(weakness etc.)

And here is your BUMP answer: Yes, try for yourself and see what happens.

[TonyTamer]

My experience with this question has some twists and turns that keep the true nature of why I am the way I am clouded : I've always ( like the rest of my 12 member immediate family ) had a lot of testosterone and my early life was completely ruled by sexual desire. I matured somewhat with age but still it was a major influence to my thoughts, if not my actions until I was 49. Then I had prostate cancer, as did my 2 older brothers the same year( we are oldest of the family ). I was fortunate in getting it out early because of the warnings of my brothers. The testosterone didn't stop-but the processing it into semen did i.e. I was still horny but not going to procreate. I'd done yoga for years as part of a larger fitness routine but then, because of the siren of major health problems, I started yoga in earnest. I wanted the usual things : suppleness as I age, immunity from illness, energy etc. but also I wanted to be assured that my vitality wasn't snipped along with the prostate. I learned the more esoteric things, or I should say, am learning, like uddiyana bandha, nauli , aswini mudra, and lately the maha bandha. Now I am starting Pranayam. I've been doing the 1st three with other things for several years now. I don't know whether my sexual continence is due to age( 56), the operation or the translation of those energies into higher chakras. I am more calm than ever, more self-directed ( as opposed to sexully-directed ) very healthy and energetic and more caring of others, I believe. I don't get as angry etc. I can't help but feel that though the intensive yoga and the post-op happened together, it was the former that is the driver. I still greatly desire intimacy and sex is great from that starting point but unlike my previous life, I can't really imagine sex without love much....and not the whitewash love of my hippie days that said to the stranger- I Love You-and the next night to another the same.My girlfriend is not unduly pressured to meet my sexual demands. I don't demand. Which is good because she is going through the change. I am also starting to do the 5 Tibetans. Yoga has made my life an adventure with a goal. Oh, if you want to see what a horny fellow I was an indication may be found in one of my 3 video's on Youtube, just type in TheTonyTamer. all one word and 2 of me , one horny but G-rated and one of my beautifully-voiced daughter singing at a wedding. She really prefers to draw and doesn't sing in public until asked at Weddings by her cousins; the time before this one was 4 years ago. Namaste.

[TonyTamer]

The youtube video's of me date from the early 90's. Namaste

[dergham]

hi
they say" he who has completely eradicated lust and is established in mental Brahmacharya is Brahman or God himself "
at that level will he be still able to do sexual intercourse or not ?
please answer me if u really know or tell me where I can find the answer
thanks