Confused : The aim of meditation .

cass · 12-30-2009, 09:41 AM

I am new learner to meditation and i am currently attending a basic course at a center in my country. Not sure if i can mentioned the name here, i will not at this moment.

I am just curious and want to know more, the below comment is just personal feelings and doubt. Please let me know if i am not allowed to share anything sensitive as mentioned below.

During the course, we discussed about who we are, who is god, and they teach on simple mediation technique.

The center has a hall with red lights on and everyone sit comfortably meditating with the red lights on. I was abit freak out and i have many questions to this. The teacher will not be able to answer to my question.

My understanding that we meditate to have a peaceful mind and to calm our thoughts. But, what my meditation teacher was saying is that meditation is the only way to reach the supreme soul and connect to GOD. I disagree at this point as i think meditation is not the only way to connect to GOD. I had a feeling that the teacher is trying to say that only through meditation ( on the way they do ) that we are able to connect to GOD and clear all our sin. It is the way that we prepare ourself to surrender to GOD and let GOD bring us to another world when the world is ending. I was also told that GOD has communicate with their choosen one to send us the message.

I am not very religious, but i believe GOD is the creator of everything we are enjoying now in this life. I trust all religion only teach us one thing , is to do good, nothing less than that.

Has meditation got to do to connect to god? I have only touch on sutra patanjali chapter one.Patanjali did not mentioned anything about this on meditation. What he mentioned was to find an object and concentrate. The aim of yoga is to break out unit consciousness into universal consciousness by letting go our ego and do good. It is also through yoga , that we find the peace of mind , bliss , enlightenment to reach samathi ( long lasting happiness
). In order to apply yogah citta vritti nirodhah is to meditate to be at peace. But , to be at peace, we can do many other things. Like, if i am concentrating on driving , clear my mind , then i am meditating. Another example is that only when i am doing my asana , my mind is no where else but on the mat concentrating on eveyr breath and movement , can that be a meditation too?

Am i trying to absorb too much and confused my self ? Or i just make it too complicated to understand ??

Techne · 12-30-2009, 12:16 PM

Hi, cass!
It sounds like you've found some folks with a very specific purpose for meditation, and a specific "chosen one". Having that specific purpose and that specific chosen one is (as it should) influencing what and how they teach meditation.

As a religious person I have noticed that clearing my mind allows me to focus on my values (which are shaped by my religious convictions) and to make decisions that are consonant with those, so meditation as connecting to God makes sense to me. (meditation as the *only* connection with God does not make sense to me.)

If their theology isn't consonant with yours (and it sounds like it isn't), you might consider looking for a different teacher.

cass · 12-30-2009, 06:57 PM

Hi there...

Thanks for sharing your view with me.

I found that my mind also was not peaceful after all the classes at this center. I was in doubt and fear as well. Perhaps my understanding on religion and meditation is not deep enough to allow me to be spiritual.

I am a trainee teacher and working in progress on how i will want to teach yoga in future. As i cant even meditate at this level , i am so in doubt that i will not be able to teach and share my knowledge with my student. I guess , the only way to teach is only through asanas. I will need to find my way out in this as it is important for me to first understand and believe on what i am doing and studying (yoga).

Have a happy new year

Namaste

Techne · 12-31-2009, 09:58 AM

I suggest (and, of course, this says more about my culture than about anything else) that spirituality isn't a matter of understanding. It is a matter of faith.
To explore this -- and I suggest this in particular based on your description of your beliefs -- sit in meditation in your home and ask God "What good thing can I do this week?" Use your meditation techniques to let your mind settle so that you can determine whether the responses you get are coming from your busy mind or from something deeper.

I definitely look forward to the new year -- I hope yours is also happy, and fulfilling.

Bentinho Massaro · 12-31-2009, 10:32 AM

The aim of meditation is to realize who is doing the meditating.

When one is meditating (or doing anything else) once can look within and ask: "Who is doing the meditating?" or: "In what space or awareness is the experience of meditation happening? What exists prior to the meditation? And then what is that space/awareness? Can I become more aware of that? Instead of focusing on something, can I simply focus or become aware of awareness itself?"

For you Cass, I would suggest to take it easy on yourself. There are many people that say many things. I am one of them without a doubt. But please don't let anyone confuse you too much, for in the end, what we all want is fairly simple and straightforward. Most people, I would say, are better of without much ideas about what one should do and how one should do it. Keep things simple and be gentle and friendly towards yourself. Listen to your intuition and your relaxed clarity when it comes to decision making.

But in general; simply relax the body and the mind again and again. Not only in meditation, but also throughout your day and let that relaxation consume your personal daily life gradually. Things will become clear on their own, like a puddle of water with mud and leaves floating around in it, will become clear when you don't interfere with it, similarly, simply relax body and mind and allow life to be as it is. Clarity comes from peace and relaxation naturally. Effort only creates more tension, superstition, imagination and belief systems.

Simply relax completely and ask yourself: "What remains Now? What is aware of this moment?" - And stay with that peaceful looking, that peaceful awareness. Repeat this moment throughout your days, again and again and soon you'll start to have faith in that peace and relaxed clarity that is present without effort. So then next time when a whole lot of ideas come flushing in to confuse you, you can simply trust in the relaxed seeing of your very own, present, awareness.

Love,
Bentinho.

InnerAthlete · 12-31-2009, 01:02 PM

Hello Cass,

Just as there are differing purposes behind trikonasa, so too are there differing purposes behind meditation.

Relative to spirituality I do not find it to be faith at all. I find religion to be faith (based). Neither appears to be particularly about "understanding". For me, spirituality is when one seeks to connect to their spirit, their soul, their capital S self. It is the desire to reconnect to that (which our current living draws us away from) AND the subsequent doing of something to decrease the distance between us and soul (reconnect).

An answer to your post will depend almost completely upon which view one is speaking from. So for the folks you are meditating with, it sounds as though they've clearly defined where they are coming from.

Sri Aurobindo writes that G-d didn't create the Universe. G-d became the Universe. In this way all things are G-d and she/he is not a salvation from a "hell" defined by human intellect. Rather it is a Divine source of which we are all part when we make that choice to connect back to the common thread - the soul within.

The meditation of Aurobindo thus is one that acknowledges everything is light and we as human beings, in order to transform ourselves to the next level of humanity, must bring more light into the physical form so that we can radiate that light on the planet - not levitate above it in the ether gazing down upon the sufferings of others.

When viewed in this or similar ways, meditation is not calming the mind or thoughts but a calm mind is necessary (or presumed) in order for meditation to occur. Some of the older meditation techniques are antiquated in such a view as they stoke pelvic force that inhibits the practitioner from aspiration (pelvic force to heart center) while others bolster only mental force and inhibit the descent of rational thought to the heart center. The heart is the guide and the mantra is to bring divine light to it in order to turn the thread of light within into a pillar.

I cannot speak for other methodologies.

Neros · 12-31-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cass

I am new learner to meditation and i am currently attending a basic course at a center in my country. Not sure if i can mentioned the name here, i will not at this moment.

I am just curious and want to know more, the below comment is just personal feelings and doubt. Please let me know if i am not allowed to share anything sensitive as mentioned below.

During the course, we discussed about who we are, who is god, and they teach on simple mediation technique.

The center has a hall with red lights on and everyone sit comfortably meditating with the red lights on. I was abit freak out and i have many questions to this. The teacher will not be able to answer to my question.

My understanding that we meditate to have a peaceful mind and to calm our thoughts. But, what my meditation teacher was saying is that meditation is the only way to reach the supreme soul and connect to GOD. I disagree at this point as i think meditation is not the only way to connect to GOD. I had a feeling that the teacher is trying to say that only through meditation ( on the way they do ) that we are able to connect to GOD and clear all our sin. It is the way that we prepare ourself to surrender to GOD and let GOD bring us to another world when the world is ending. I was also told that GOD has communicate with their choosen one to send us the message.

I am not very religious, but i believe GOD is the creator of everything we are enjoying now in this life. I trust all religion only teach us one thing , is to do good, nothing less than that.

Has meditation got to do to connect to god? I have only touch on sutra patanjali chapter one.Patanjali did not mentioned anything about this on meditation. What he mentioned was to find an object and concentrate. The aim of yoga is to break out unit consciousness into universal consciousness by letting go our ego and do good. It is also through yoga , that we find the peace of mind , bliss , enlightenment to reach samathi ( long lasting happiness
). In order to apply yogah citta vritti nirodhah is to meditate to be at peace. But , to be at peace, we can do many other things. Like, if i am concentrating on driving , clear my mind , then i am meditating. Another example is that only when i am doing my asana , my mind is no where else but on the mat concentrating on eveyr breath and movement , can that be a meditation too?

Am i trying to absorb too much and confused my self ? Or i just make it too complicated to understand ??

The universal consciousness can be considered to be the creator, and is by many. The macrocosm or the universe itself can be considered god because god is all that is and created all that is. So when one connects the "unit consciousness" to the universal consciousness, it can be said that one is bringing the microcosm/individual into a state where it is one with the macrocosm/universal consciousness/god/etc.

cass · 01-01-2010, 07:56 AM

Dear Maranatha , Bentinho , Gordon , Neros:

First of all , thank u so much on guiding me and giving me different views on meditation.

I will now allow myself take things easily and find my way on meditation. I have fear in me on meditation as i have heard that if we meditate in a wrong way , our soul will leave the body and the bad spirit will then enter. Perhaps , this is also the reason that i do not allow myself to go into meditation mode at times. However, i believe there are many different views and purpose on meditation as mentioned from all of you. I shall then look in within to find my own purpose and way on this.

I find myself in deep peace during yoga classes or during my self practice. The good feelings and relaxing mind will be with me throughout the whole day. By chanting the mantra at times, i felt different. This is the way that i could find peace and be present. Maybe i am already meditating , just that mine is different from others

Happy new year to all

Thanks for guiding me.

samarjit · 01-01-2010, 11:47 PM

Dear Friend As per your teacher it not true only the meditation is not the way to connect with the God , its our mind that how we will satisfied our mind & soul if our Soul satisfied with helping another this the way we connect with the God the things is that we also don't know how God is Looking & where he this is theory of human civilization that ,their are so many God in this World & evry one has their own community & society we human being helpless with our mind what ever our spritual leader says we blindly believed on them , If you go through stories of Leo Tolstoy you found that God is within our Mind only .

Concentraion is another way to connect with our Mind where GOD is .

Asuri · 01-04-2010, 05:37 PM

Hi Cass,

I agree with most of what Inner Athlete said, but I still want to add my two cents. One of the really good things about Yoga is that it is a universal practice. It can be practiced independent of any religious belief, or it can be used together with any religious belief.

Don't be fooled by people who preach fear. There is nothing to fear in meditation. No evil spirit is going to enter your body. In fact, you are much more likely to find light.

I suggest that you become more familiar with the Asta Anga (Eight Limb) section in chapter two of Patanjali's yoga sutras. That is where he describes the different stages of yoga practice. It takes a long time to really understand and assimilate this, but in time you will, if you practice.

Also, in my view there is no single purpose for meditation. Some people meditate to find liberation, others meditate for enlightenment, and still others meditate just to make their lives better in some way. Whatever your purpose is, that is your purpose.

walla108 · 02-21-2010, 03:47 AM

I don't know how much help this is, but I can share with you what mediation is for me, coming from a Buddhist perspective. We meditate to familiarize ourselves with our being-with the truths of change and interdependence. I know that in some traditions this means connecting with God, in others, connecting with a higher power. For me, it's about getting to know my habit patterns so that I can overcome the rote behaviors that keep me from experiencing life fully.

I would also say, based on my own experiences and the teachers I have been extremely fortunate to have found, never do something you don't understand or feel uncomfortable with. Anyone who tells you to do something without a reason why, in my book, sends up a red flag.

Good Luck!

Seeker33 · 02-22-2010, 06:50 AM

The aim of mediation is to connect Atma with Paramatma. I was able to archive this with Sahaja yoga.

Babananda · 03-02-2010, 09:37 AM

OM,

Meditation is stillness, just peace, an experience of peace becoming bigger and more intense. In this experience, in ones inner Being, the meaning of aim disappears (but comes back as soon as the mind and subconscious become active again). Simply put - an experience of silence/stillness is the aim of meditation.

Love,
-B

YogaBija · 03-06-2010, 06:42 AM

I started reading this thread, and the felt the urger just to type something, so I hope m not repeating anything, but this is my view (probably a partial explanation of my thougths/understanding cos I am doing home work)

Meditation is not always easy, it's a combination of seating position, relaxation and the use of one of the many meditation techniques.

it is hightly possible the mind could be disturbed during meditation as mental artifacts are released from the subconscious. But are you saying you were disturbed after the mediation?

YogaBija · 03-06-2010, 06:44 AM

BTW, God surely is everything and we a part of everything, so are we not already connected to God? I suppose it depends on the definition of God that is being used.

Babananda · 03-06-2010, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YogaBija

Meditation is not always easy, it's a combination of seating position, relaxation and the use of one of the many meditation techniques.

it is hightly possible the mind could be disturbed during meditation as mental artifacts are released from the subconscious. But are you saying you were disturbed after the mediation?

Practicing a technique is not meditation. Meditation is simply an experience of peace which one can use some tool to tune into.

Many times it is said in common language that "I am doing meditation", or "I am going to meditate" but meditation is a state of being (not doing) and when one is practicing a technique it is not meditation but practice of concentration. When concentration and relaxation goes deep (spiced with surrender and positive mindset) and the performance of the technique stops, then it is meditation - dhyana.

YogaBija · 03-06-2010, 09:25 AM

You are correct, and thats the bit I didn't say because I didn't have time when I made the post.

In my view, its like this, most people who meditate are practicing concentration, they are not even in a state of concentration (Dharana). The state of concentration (not the practicing of a focussing technique) provides the foundation for a spontanious experience of meditation (Dhyana which provides the foundation for spontanious experiences of the various levels/states of samadhi.

In various books it says that you need to sit relaxed and motionless for 3 hours to have a true meditational experience. So the sitting/posture is the foundation from which you build to the experience of meditation. On top of that (through preperation in asana work maybe) you are able to sit in a relaxed and comfortable position (withought being disturbed by the mind) for say 3 hours.

While the body is in this position the mind can forget about the body, which, allows the mind to go in (pratyahara, sense withdrawl), and then the various other states have a chance at arrising.

But initially the practice is the art of practicing techniques and developing the qualities needed for a meditational experience.

Is that how you see it?

CityMonk · 03-13-2010, 10:03 PM

Check out Swami John website - alot about meditation theory and practical application

Psa1mist9 · 03-13-2010, 10:50 PM

Correct me if im wrong... but doesnt meditation stimulate your your crown chakra (where your higher self (GOD) Dwells?

Meditation can also mean prayer as well because you are praying to a higher being who you understand to be always good, just and always knows what is best.

I mean thats just my mathematics.

Yoga & Unity · 06-03-2010, 01:31 AM

Useful link for Meditation,

http://www.dlshq.org/messages/medguide.htm

CityMonk · 06-04-2010, 10:49 AM

Check out another post for meditation
http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16...html#post30405

YogaBija · 06-04-2010, 03:13 PM

to be simple, I think its best to learn from a teacher and then as one develops a guru. Experience is utlimatly the only useful form of education. Intellect alone won't bring results, it may guide and inform, but it is the practice that brings results.

MelSilversmith · 06-06-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cass

I am new learner to meditation and i am currently attending a basic course at a center in my country. Not sure if i can mentioned the name here, i will not at this moment.

I am just curious and want to know more, the below comment is just personal feelings and doubt. Please let me know if i am not allowed to share anything sensitive as mentioned below.

During the course, we discussed about who we are, who is god, and they teach on simple mediation technique.

The center has a hall with red lights on and everyone sit comfortably meditating with the red lights on. I was abit freak out and i have many questions to this. The teacher will not be able to answer to my question.

My understanding that we meditate to have a peaceful mind and to calm our thoughts. But, what my meditation teacher was saying is that meditation is the only way to reach the supreme soul and connect to GOD. I disagree at this point as i think meditation is not the only way to connect to GOD. I had a feeling that the teacher is trying to say that only through meditation ( on the way they do ) that we are able to connect to GOD and clear all our sin. It is the way that we prepare ourself to surrender to GOD and let GOD bring us to another world when the world is ending. I was also told that GOD has communicate with their choosen one to send us the message.

I am not very religious, but i believe GOD is the creator of everything we are enjoying now in this life. I trust all religion only teach us one thing , is to do good, nothing less than that.

Has meditation got to do to connect to god? I have only touch on sutra patanjali chapter one.Patanjali did not mentioned anything about this on meditation. What he mentioned was to find an object and concentrate. The aim of yoga is to break out unit consciousness into universal consciousness by letting go our ego and do good. It is also through yoga , that we find the peace of mind , bliss , enlightenment to reach samathi ( long lasting happiness
). In order to apply yogah citta vritti nirodhah is to meditate to be at peace. But , to be at peace, we can do many other things. Like, if i am concentrating on driving , clear my mind , then i am meditating. Another example is that only when i am doing my asana , my mind is no where else but on the mat concentrating on eveyr breath and movement , can that be a meditation too?

Am i trying to absorb too much and confused my self ? Or i just make it too complicated to understand ??

Hi Cass,
This thread is really a good one because you have a good question and you got great answers. I am just wondering if you have found what you are looking for. I hope you have found meaning when you meditate and instead find answers instead of questions. Dont worry what you are going through is a normal thing. We all ask questions and know that "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear". You got good teachers in here. Namaste!

benralston · 06-19-2010, 10:23 AM

You can see my article on meditation here.
It's the first in a series... more to follow later.

Hope it helps!

With love,
Ben

The Scales · 07-24-2010, 12:32 AM

Meditation practices can be used for all sorts of purposes.

Like Habituating mind to build character. Like lets say: I don't like frowing so much. I want to smile all the time! How lovely that would be. So you sit and do analytical meditation for a while. You analyse smiling. You go over smiling forwards and backwards with all kinds of questions? Why do I want to smile? Oh Because It makes my face look good, and it brings me good friends, and makes life more fun, and makes me smile even more. What does smiling mean? It means I'm happy! Is smiling good? Yes silly smiling is good. So you go on in that way until your tired of it and then you focus on smiling nonconceptually. Just rest on smiling without thinking about it.

So over the course of time by going in this way you will transform yourself into a smiling machine!

This is the the way to habituate the mind to build character if one so desires to do such a thing.

You could use it to solve problems. Whatever they may be.

So for the Big G. To meditate on the Big G you'd maybe start by visualizing the Original Gangsta symbolically. The Triangle is best, however you could personify him if so inclined.
Then you could hold the visualization and make the mind more forcefull by singing or mentally singing any one of his BAGILLION names. You could contemplate the various qualities - if so inclined. If you start crying. Thats pretty good.

All this stuff only serves to focus the mind towards the Suchness, the Thatness, the most awesomeness. While embodied the yogas are the means to realize.

You dont' have to meditate on the Absolute to understand intellectually the profound connection.

Yoga is however, the means to Realize within your own being this connection. Face to Face so to speak. First hand experiential knowledge.

Realization and Faith are a little different.

AmirMourad · 03-30-2011, 07:48 PM

There is no purpose to meditation whatsoever, it is not a means to an end. And anything which becomes a means to an end is just a way to nourish your own egotism, which wants to reduce everything to a certain purpose. Certain things may happen as a by product of meditation, but they should not be misunderstood as goals to acheive. On the contrary, the moment you even make an effort for meditation, you have already killed the possibility. It is not something that can arise as an effort of the mind. Effort is needed, just to create a space which is prepared for it, but when it happens it never happens as an effort of the mind. Meditation requires you to remain a witness in the present from moment to moment, without identification with whatever may arise in your experience. That is why - those who set a goal for it have always failed. Because your expectations have prevented you from being a witness in the present, your clinging to desires have prevented you from being a witness in the present. When there is witnessing, there is just witnessing and nothing else.
Meditation is not a means to an end, when you are so absorbed in the process, then both the means and the end dissolve as one reality.

AmirMourad · 03-30-2011, 07:49 PM

"My understanding that we meditate to have a peaceful mind and to calm our thoughts. But, what my meditation teacher was saying is that meditation is the only way to reach the supreme soul and connect to GOD. "

It is safe to dismiss all this as sheer nonsense. The chances are, that the same people who have been speaking to you about meditation have raised all of the obstacles which prevent you from coming to know of it.

charliedharma · 03-31-2011, 02:35 AM

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;55704]There is no purpose to meditation .

what about the Brahma viharas ? what about developing samahdi , do you not think that these might not have some intention ? dont you think some folk might get along better with a little structure ? a little focus on the breath perhaps, a little hatha yoga, a little study , maybe so they can get to a place of sitting for the delight of sitting , free from trying to do anything.
Im keen on just sitting , not trying to to do anything but witness , but I have in the past been looking to cultivate ways of being , certain qualities , In a non grasping unattached way of course ! ultimately maybe there is no purpose , maybe I have been wasting my time but I definately moved from a place of great suffering to one of less suffering using brahma viharas , mindfulness of breath and other meditations with intention , isnt their a discovery a realisation to be made along the way ?

YogiAdam · 03-31-2011, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cass

I am new learner to meditation and i am currently attending a basic course at a center in my country. Not sure if i can mentioned the name here, i will not at this moment.

I am just curious and want to know more, the below comment is just personal feelings and doubt. Please let me know if i am not allowed to share anything sensitive as mentioned below.

During the course, we discussed about who we are, who is god, and they teach on simple mediation technique.

The center has a hall with red lights on and everyone sit comfortably meditating with the red lights on. I was abit freak out and i have many questions to this. The teacher will not be able to answer to my question.

My understanding that we meditate to have a peaceful mind and to calm our thoughts. But, what my meditation teacher was saying is that meditation is the only way to reach the supreme soul and connect to GOD. I disagree at this point as i think meditation is not the only way to connect to GOD. I had a feeling that the teacher is trying to say that only through meditation ( on the way they do ) that we are able to connect to GOD and clear all our sin. It is the way that we prepare ourself to surrender to GOD and let GOD bring us to another world when the world is ending. I was also told that GOD has communicate with their choosen one to send us the message.

I am not very religious, but i believe GOD is the creator of everything we are enjoying now in this life. I trust all religion only teach us one thing , is to do good, nothing less than that.

Has meditation got to do to connect to god? I have only touch on sutra patanjali chapter one.Patanjali did not mentioned anything about this on meditation. What he mentioned was to find an object and concentrate. The aim of yoga is to break out unit consciousness into universal consciousness by letting go our ego and do good. It is also through yoga , that we find the peace of mind , bliss , enlightenment to reach samathi ( long lasting happiness
). In order to apply yogah citta vritti nirodhah is to meditate to be at peace. But , to be at peace, we can do many other things. Like, if i am concentrating on driving , clear my mind , then i am meditating. Another example is that only when i am doing my asana , my mind is no where else but on the mat concentrating on eveyr breath and movement , can that be a meditation too?

Am i trying to absorb too much and confused my self ? Or i just make it too complicated to understand ??

Hi Cass. Meditation has a very practical application, however due to it's origins (like yoga), it is intertwined with what could most accurately described as BS.
Anyone meditating to become more 'spiritual', or to become 'liberated' or closer to god, or even to become a god, has either missed the point of meditation or is in need of some serious mental care.
Meditation, put simply, is a way to focus the mind and become familiar with our mental state. It's a way to assist us in bringing our attention back to the life we are living, and away from our day dreams.
This is a very simplified explanation, but my point is, if you are being told that mediation is for some sort of magical gateway to the divine, you are listening to a lunatic. Just keep things simple and practical, and you will never get lost.

Seeker33 · 03-31-2011, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cass

My understanding that we meditate to have a peaceful mind and to calm our thoughts.

That’s right. The first step is to reach thoughtless awareness- Nirvichar Samadhi.