Does one need a guru? - Page 4

Prascina · 06-24-2008, 03:12 AM

guru brahma
guru vishnu
guru devo maheswara
guru sakhal parabrahma
thasmye sri guruve namah

the creation is your guru
the operation is your guru
and destruction is your guru
Guru is the creator..operator..and destructor of Ego
he is the pure consciousness itself.

The need of a guru as a person or the guidance of just the inner guru depends on the aspirants level of 'involution'.

**Nichole** · 06-24-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prascina

guru brahma
guru vishnu
guru devo maheswara
guru sakhal parabrahma
thasmye sri guruve namah

the creation is your guru
the operation is your guru
and destruction is your guru
Guru is the creator..operator..and destructor of Ego
he is the pure consciousness itself.

The need of a guru as a person or the guidance of just the inner guru depends on the aspirants level of 'involution'.

For this very reason, I am grateful and beyond for my outer teacher. I have known just enough to realize how much there is still unknown to me.

Fin · 06-25-2008, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nichole

... I have known just enough to realize how much there is still unknown to me.

very well put, Nichole.

... there is the known, the unknown, & the unknowable

the outer teacher helps in knowing & pushing the boundaries...

Prascina · 06-25-2008, 06:52 AM

'the outer teacher helps in knowing & pushing the boundaries... '
and will guide you to that door of inner guru.

Pandara · 06-25-2008, 02:22 PM

Namaste All,

I think so much have been said here and all are valid. My own beloved teacher retired in the beginning of this year and also moved to another city where she will spent most of her remaning days now in meditation. Point is I feel like an orphan without her and her loving guidance. The true value of the master/guru/teacher can only be realised once they are not there anymore.

Prascina · 06-28-2008, 05:42 AM

Attachments

Pandara · 06-28-2008, 07:59 AM

And so we learn to de-attach.

Prascina · 06-30-2008, 02:05 AM

De-attachment goes hand in hand with attachment. In liberation where is attachment or de-attachment.

pinky11 · 06-30-2008, 07:32 AM

If somebody is teaching you ashtanga yoga or hatha yoga, he/she is not a guru but a teacher.

A guru is must for your spiritual journey. It is said that once your mind is tuned with supreme conciousness/ God you will meet with your guru who will take you by hand and guide you personally. Guru will make you realise yourself as if you are looking into a mirror.

A true guru is above material things.

If you are having a guru, you must have infinite faith in your guru.

There can be some great saints who may not need a guru, but there will be a handful of such persons in this world.

Prascina · 07-02-2008, 06:09 AM

The physical guru 'helps in knowing & pushing the boundaries... '
if necessary and will guide you to that door of inner guru...the pure consciousness.

Rashmi · 07-02-2008, 07:22 AM

Dear friends,
namaste,

Present days it is difficult to accept guru for us becos of "egos, logic, mind , intellect". It is the guru who opens door of wisdom for us. But to get a real guru who is a brahma gyani is really difficult like shirdi sai baba, swami nityananda of ganeshpuri, gajanan maharaj, rammana maharishi, swami sammarth, swami dayanand saraswati, swami vivekanand.

The relation between a shishya and guru cannot be quantified unlike any worldly relations.A guru even after leaving the physical forms looks after the welfare of his shishya. In words of great swami nityananda :
"Gurudev would tell his devotees "You are all taken care with the eyes of a tortoise". Thereby, he allied to the belief that a tortoise, from a distance would concentrate on its eggs and make them hatch. Only great Sadgurus have the ability to concentrate on their devotees at far-off places and make them capable of self-realisation. At times, Gurudev, would tell some of his keen devotees. The study of books does not accomplish much. The wisdom of the brain is very important. More than that is the nectar of wisdom gained through Sadhana-spiritual meditation". To some special devotees, he once said that Swami Vivekananda had said and taught all that was worth saying and teaching. He did not leave anything for others to preach". Once to a party of sincere devotees he said, "Study the Gita, learn renunciation, concentration and maintain a clean, pure "bhavana" and to the introvert Sadhakas, Gurudev would always advise, "practise intense meditation".

About the necessity of guru shri sai baba of shirdi has said

Hot Discussion
On the first day of my(hemadpant) arrival in Shirdi, there was a discussion between me and Balasaheb Bhate regarding the necessity of a Guru. I contended, "Why should we lose our freedom and submit to others? When we have to do our duty, why a Guru is necessary? One must try his best and save himself. What can the Guru do to a man who does nothing but sleeps indolently?" Thus I pleaded freewill, while Mr. Bhate took up the other side, viz., Destiny, and said, "Whatever is bound to happen must happen; even great men have failed, man proposes one way, but God disposes the other (contrary) way. Brush aside your cleverness; pride or egoism won’t help you." This discussion, with all its pros and cons went on for an hour or so, and as usual no decision was arrived at. We had to stop the discussion ultimately as we were exhausted. The net result of this was that I lost my peace of mind and found that unless there is strong body-consciousness and egoism, there would be no discussion; in other words, it is egoism which breeds discussion.
Then when we went to the Masjid with others, Baba asked Kakasaheb Dixit the following: -
"What was going on in the (Sathe’s) Wada? What was the discussion about?" and staring at me, Baba further added, "What did this Hemadpant say?"
Hearing these words, I was much surprised. The Masjid was at a considerable distance from Sathe’s Wada where I was staying and where the discussion was going on. How could Baba know our discussion unless He be omniscient and Inner Ruler of us all?

About the Necessity of a Guru
Hemadpant has left no note, no memo about what Baba said regarding this subject, but Kakasaheb Dixit has published his notes regarding this matter. Next day after Hemadpant’s meeting with Sai Baba, Kakasaheb went to Baba and asked whether he should leave Shirdi. Baba Said, "Yes". Then someone asked - "Baba, where to go?" Baba said, "High up." Then the man said, "How is the way?" Baba said, "There are many ways leading there; there is one way also from here (Shirdi). The way is difficult. There are tigers and wolves in the jungles on the way." I (Kakasaheb) asked - "But Baba, what if we take a guide with us?" Baba answered, - "Then there is no difficulty. The guide will take you straight to your destination, avoiding wolves, tigers and ditches etc. on the way. If there be no guide, there is the danger of your being lost in the jungles or falling into ditches." Mr. Dabholkar was present on this occasion and he thought that this was the answer Baba gave to the question whether Guru was a necessity (Vide Sai Leela Vol. I, No.5, Page 47); and he thereupon took the hint that no discussion of the problem, whether man is free or bound, is of any use in spiritual matters, but that on the contrary real Paramartha is possible only as the result of the teachings of the Guru, as is illustrated in this chapter of the original work in the instances of great Avatars like Rama and Krishna, who had to submit themselves to their Gurus, Vasishtha and Sandipani respectively, for getting self- realization and that the only virtues necessary for such progress are faith and patience. (Vide Sai Satcharita, Ch. II, 191-92).

There are beautiful videos of swami nityananda of ganeshpuri, paramhansa yogananda, rammannna rishi on you tube. It is worth watching.
faith & patience alone ferry us across this ocean.This beautiful relation is best portrayed in Sai charitra, Guruchritra and autobiography of yogi by paramhansa yogananda.Due to paucity of time i am not able to write, hope in future by gods grace i will write in great details by gurus guidance

OM

Hubert · 07-03-2008, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashmi

About the Necessity of a Guru
Then someone asked - "Baba, where to go?" Baba said, "High up." Then the man said, "How is the way?" Baba said, "There are many ways leading there; there is one way also from here (Shirdi). The way is difficult. There are tigers and wolves in the jungles on the way." I (Kakasaheb) asked - "But Baba, what if we take a guide with us?" Baba answered, - "Then there is no difficulty. The guide will take you straight to your destination, avoiding wolves, tigers and ditches etc. on the way. If there be no guide, there is the danger of your being lost in the jungles or falling into ditches."

OM

I met such a "wolf" last night. (it was rather a succubi -although it was genderless) I woke up in terror, and had to read and pray for a while. I have never been so afraid in my life. It was an icy cold menacing presence.
Than in the morning, I had another dream ... I was talking and explaining how I am an anarchist, to a friend of mine. (By anarchist I mean one who is utterly uncopromising in his judgement and very attached to his own freedom, one who is argumentative and gnostic) and that friend took me to a marble hall, where many many deformed babies and little children were as in a nursery. I took one in my arms, and as I held the child, having only one arm, I felt the warmth of that little body, and she hugged me with that one little arm, and I felt immense compassion and love, and a very deep desire to love her, to love all of them. I woke up, but this compassion, love and determination to love, to be there for those struck by fate, remained, and I hope I will be able to do just that, whenever I can, in whatever ways I can. A very humbling, deep, rewarding experience, a purifying, strenghtening one.

There are guides, even if not physical ... and the guide being impersonated by a friend shows that through their karma, our everyday companions represent a much higher wisdom by their actions, even if most of the time they are not aware of that.

Hubert · 07-03-2008, 11:28 PM

Singular, succubus, succubi, plural.

Was it real ? The experience was real. Perhaps it was just a nightmare caused by the heat of the early evening, than the coldness of late night.

Hubert · 07-05-2008, 04:57 AM

I mean the nightmare. The other "dream" was pretty much real.

Pandara · 07-05-2008, 12:09 PM

Dear Hubert,

Only you will be able to tell, because it was your experience, no one else can tell you.

Happy Warrior · 07-05-2008, 04:47 PM

I'm teaching myself yoga without going to classes right now because I can't afford them financially. Just started. Inspired by books. Keeping it simple and consistent and have noticed a huge difference in my day when I don't wake up early enough to at least do a 20 minute routine of the basics by myself. I realize a teacher will likely be necessary to take myself to the next level, but think I can develop a nice foundation on my own. I'm probably making many mistakes without realizing it, though. I had to work through a neck ache I developed before I made a few adjustments to my cobra - like poses and now I use a pillow for the bridge to cushion my neck through that one as well.

JustinTime · 07-06-2008, 10:45 AM

The following I found somewhere else:

Quote:

"Once a student asked his guru, "When will I attain enlightenment?"
The guru took him to a well and shoved his head in the water until he
almost drowned. Afterwards he said, "When your desire for the Supreme
is as strong as your desire for air was just now, then you will
attain enlightenment."

Sorry, not my kind of guru. I would be tempted to report him to the police (depending on the distance between the well and the police station

).

drkalpesh555 · 07-11-2008, 04:40 AM

I think guru is must but it is not easy to find out true real Guru in this world especially when lots of business gurus are available. So the only way is pray to god that I want to realize you and he will perform his job better he will send the either animate or inanimate guru for sure... so just keep on praying untill you get what u want there is no limit or deadlines for that he may listen you after one minute or may take one trillion or more minutes... so be patients everytime afterall without patients you can't get anything!!!!!

JustinTime · 07-11-2008, 05:16 AM

There is no objektive support for the idea that prayer 'works', only subjective. For those who practise it it might 'work', and for those who believe in it it does 'work' ( logically speaking, or, do my mind psycho -logically

).

drkalpesh555 · 07-11-2008, 07:16 AM

As we cant see the air though, there is air (O2) which is essential for our body means it is there and its work but wether you believe or not like that prayer works you believe it or not logically or psycho - logically.

PatR · 07-11-2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandara

And so we learn to de-attach.

There's a story where a sage named Narad muni once asks Krishna why you make your devotees suffer ?

Krishna replies "If I love someone, I first take away his wealth, his comforts and then his friends and loved ones, so that he remains only for me"

It's God's way of preparing us for the ultimate ananda.

drkalpesh555 · 07-11-2008, 08:08 AM

This is the quote which I can never forget in my life since I heard it before 5 year. It is pleasure for me to read it again from someone else.

Thanks dear, jay shree krishna

JustinTime · 07-11-2008, 05:39 PM

Prayer may be 'air(O2)' to you but they differ from eachother inasmuch that 'air(O2)' exists without prayer, has done so for quite some time and - thus far - is not dependent on prayer for its existence, whereas prayer only exists since humans started praying; it is a human invention originating in a human need. When humans are extinct there will no longer be either prayer or the need for it whereas 'air(O2)' in all likelihood will still be around somewhere, if not on this planet perhaps.

For me the question is not whether or not one needs a guru but why some humans feel the need for one.

drkalpesh555 · 07-12-2008, 12:53 AM

As someone want to go somewhere he or she must have the guide otherwise He or she may lost or may take longer duration to reach to the target, so to avoid the mistakes and mishapes one feels that there should be the person who allready reached to the target. He can help the initiater to reach the same destination without making errors that he made. This will not only reduces his duration to reach there but also enhances the percentage of surity for success.

Hubert · 07-12-2008, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatR

There's a story where a sage named Narad muni once asks Krishna why you make your devotees suffer ?

Krishna replies "If I love someone, I first take away his wealth, his comforts and then his friends and loved ones, so that he remains only for me"

It's God's way of preparing us for the ultimate ananda.

It is so, just that it's not funny at all for the poor soul involved. You realize that such purifying process can be extremely painful. It is of little use to think of great sages who accomplished it apparently without effort ... as they had their share of suffering in their former lives.

All illnesses, accidents, losses are obstacles meant to strenghten the soul, remember: "this atman is not attainable by a weak man".

PatR · 07-12-2008, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hubert

It is so, just that it's not funny at all for the poor soul involved. You realize that such purifying process can be extremely painful.

poor soul ????

any suffering for such a soul is blessing in disguise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinTime

For me the question is not whether or not one needs a guru but why some humans feel the need for one.

I think when we shed our ego we feel the need for a guru.

JustinTime · 07-12-2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:

I think when we shed our ego we feel the need for a guru.

To my way of thinking any ego-shedding will/can only happen at the point of death, by which time any need for a guru, or anything else for that matter, would/will have become irrelevant.

But this is only my way of thinking. I wouldn't bother reading other people's contributions if I were not, at least to some degree, interested in the views of others.
I say, to some degree, as I find myself dismayed at the prevalence of dogmatism in so many, many posts.

Of course, it was, indeed is, rather naive of me to expect otherwise.

06-25-2008, 02:22 PM	#95
Pandara sátshata Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pretoria, South Africa Posts: 665	Namaste All, I think so much have been said here and all are valid. My own beloved teacher retired in the beginning of this year and also moved to another city where she will spent most of her remaning days now in meditation. Point is I feel like an orphan without her and her loving guidance. The true value of the master/guru/teacher can only be realised once they are not there anymore. __________________ Blessings & Om's Pandara _____________________________________________ Serve, Love, Give, Purify, Meditate, Realise. - Swami Sivanada

06-28-2008, 07:59 AM	#97
Pandara sátshata Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pretoria, South Africa Posts: 665	And so we learn to de-attach. __________________ Blessings & Om's Pandara _____________________________________________ Serve, Love, Give, Purify, Meditate, Realise. - Swami Sivanada

06-30-2008, 07:32 AM	#99
pinky11 dashan Join Date: May 2008 Location: Panjab, India Posts: 15	If somebody is teaching you ashtanga yoga or hatha yoga, he/she is not a guru but a teacher. A guru is must for your spiritual journey. It is said that once your mind is tuned with supreme conciousness/ God you will meet with your guru who will take you by hand and guide you personally. Guru will make you realise yourself as if you are looking into a mirror. A true guru is above material things. If you are having a guru, you must have infinite faith in your guru. There can be some great saints who may not need a guru, but there will be a handful of such persons in this world. __________________ "Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe it can achieve." Napoleon Hill

07-02-2008, 07:22 AM	#101
Rashmi shatá Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: india Posts: 127	Dear friends, namaste, Present days it is difficult to accept guru for us becos of "egos, logic, mind , intellect". It is the guru who opens door of wisdom for us. But to get a real guru who is a brahma gyani is really difficult like shirdi sai baba, swami nityananda of ganeshpuri, gajanan maharaj, rammana maharishi, swami sammarth, swami dayanand saraswati, swami vivekanand. The relation between a shishya and guru cannot be quantified unlike any worldly relations.A guru even after leaving the physical forms looks after the welfare of his shishya. In words of great swami nityananda : "Gurudev would tell his devotees "You are all taken care with the eyes of a tortoise". Thereby, he allied to the belief that a tortoise, from a distance would concentrate on its eggs and make them hatch. Only great Sadgurus have the ability to concentrate on their devotees at far-off places and make them capable of self-realisation. At times, Gurudev, would tell some of his keen devotees. The study of books does not accomplish much. The wisdom of the brain is very important. More than that is the nectar of wisdom gained through Sadhana-spiritual meditation". To some special devotees, he once said that Swami Vivekananda had said and taught all that was worth saying and teaching. He did not leave anything for others to preach". Once to a party of sincere devotees he said, "Study the Gita, learn renunciation, concentration and maintain a clean, pure "bhavana" and to the introvert Sadhakas, Gurudev would always advise, "practise intense meditation". About the necessity of guru shri sai baba of shirdi has said Hot Discussion On the first day of my(hemadpant) arrival in Shirdi, there was a discussion between me and Balasaheb Bhate regarding the necessity of a Guru. I contended, "Why should we lose our freedom and submit to others? When we have to do our duty, why a Guru is necessary? One must try his best and save himself. What can the Guru do to a man who does nothing but sleeps indolently?" Thus I pleaded freewill, while Mr. Bhate took up the other side, viz., Destiny, and said, "Whatever is bound to happen must happen; even great men have failed, man proposes one way, but God disposes the other (contrary) way. Brush aside your cleverness; pride or egoism won’t help you." This discussion, with all its pros and cons went on for an hour or so, and as usual no decision was arrived at. We had to stop the discussion ultimately as we were exhausted. The net result of this was that I lost my peace of mind and found that unless there is strong body-consciousness and egoism, there would be no discussion; in other words, it is egoism which breeds discussion. Then when we went to the Masjid with others, Baba asked Kakasaheb Dixit the following: - "What was going on in the (Sathe’s) Wada? What was the discussion about?" and staring at me, Baba further added, "What did this Hemadpant say?" Hearing these words, I was much surprised. The Masjid was at a considerable distance from Sathe’s Wada where I was staying and where the discussion was going on. How could Baba know our discussion unless He be omniscient and Inner Ruler of us all? About the Necessity of a Guru Hemadpant has left no note, no memo about what Baba said regarding this subject, but Kakasaheb Dixit has published his notes regarding this matter. Next day after Hemadpant’s meeting with Sai Baba, Kakasaheb went to Baba and asked whether he should leave Shirdi. Baba Said, "Yes". Then someone asked - "Baba, where to go?" Baba said, "High up." Then the man said, "How is the way?" Baba said, "There are many ways leading there; there is one way also from here (Shirdi). The way is difficult. There are tigers and wolves in the jungles on the way." I (Kakasaheb) asked - "But Baba, what if we take a guide with us?" Baba answered, - "Then there is no difficulty. The guide will take you straight to your destination, avoiding wolves, tigers and ditches etc. on the way. If there be no guide, there is the danger of your being lost in the jungles or falling into ditches." Mr. Dabholkar was present on this occasion and he thought that this was the answer Baba gave to the question whether Guru was a necessity (Vide Sai Leela Vol. I, No.5, Page 47); and he thereupon took the hint that no discussion of the problem, whether man is free or bound, is of any use in spiritual matters, but that on the contrary real Paramartha is possible only as the result of the teachings of the Guru, as is illustrated in this chapter of the original work in the instances of great Avatars like Rama and Krishna, who had to submit themselves to their Gurus, Vasishtha and Sandipani respectively, for getting self- realization and that the only virtues necessary for such progress are faith and patience. (Vide Sai Satcharita, Ch. II, 191-92). There are beautiful videos of swami nityananda of ganeshpuri, paramhansa yogananda, rammannna rishi on you tube. It is worth watching. faith & patience alone ferry us across this ocean.This beautiful relation is best portrayed in Sai charitra, Guruchritra and autobiography of yogi by paramhansa yogananda.Due to paucity of time i am not able to write, hope in future by gods grace i will write in great details by gurus guidance OM __________________ rashmi

07-03-2008, 11:28 PM	#103
Hubert astashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 806	Singular, succubus, succubi, plural. Was it real ? The experience was real. Perhaps it was just a nightmare caused by the heat of the early evening, than the coldness of late night. __________________ "My God is love and sweetly suffers all."/ Sri Aurobindo

06-24-2008, 03:12 AM	#91
Prascina saptatí Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: India Posts: 70	guru brahma guru vishnu guru devo maheswara guru sakhal parabrahma thasmye sri guruve namah the creation is your guru the operation is your guru and destruction is your guru Guru is the creator..operator..and destructor of Ego he is the pure consciousness itself. The need of a guru as a person or the guidance of just the inner guru depends on the aspirants level of 'involution'.

06-25-2008, 06:52 AM	#94
Prascina saptatí Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: India Posts: 70	'the outer teacher helps in knowing & pushing the boundaries... ' and will guide you to that door of inner guru.

06-28-2008, 05:42 AM	#96
Prascina saptatí Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: India Posts: 70	Attachments

06-30-2008, 02:05 AM	#98
Prascina saptatí Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: India Posts: 70	De-attachment goes hand in hand with attachment. In liberation where is attachment or de-attachment.

07-02-2008, 06:09 AM	#100
Prascina saptatí Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: India Posts: 70	The physical guru 'helps in knowing & pushing the boundaries... ' if necessary and will guide you to that door of inner guru...the pure consciousness.

07-05-2008, 04:57 AM	#104
Hubert astashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 806	I mean the nightmare. The other "dream" was pretty much real. __________________ "My God is love and sweetly suffers all."/ Sri Aurobindo

07-05-2008, 12:09 PM	#105
Pandara sátshata Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pretoria, South Africa Posts: 665	Dear Hubert, Only you will be able to tell, because it was your experience, no one else can tell you. __________________ Blessings & Om's Pandara _____________________________________________ Serve, Love, Give, Purify, Meditate, Realise. - Swami Sivanada

07-05-2008, 04:47 PM	#106
Happy Warrior trimshát Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Saint Charles, IL Posts: 35	I'm teaching myself yoga without going to classes right now because I can't afford them financially. Just started. Inspired by books. Keeping it simple and consistent and have noticed a huge difference in my day when I don't wake up early enough to at least do a 20 minute routine of the basics by myself. I realize a teacher will likely be necessary to take myself to the next level, but think I can develop a nice foundation on my own. I'm probably making many mistakes without realizing it, though. I had to work through a neck ache I developed before I made a few adjustments to my cobra - like poses and now I use a pillow for the bridge to cushion my neck through that one as well.

07-11-2008, 04:40 AM	#108
drkalpesh555 catúr Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: india Posts: 4	I think guru is must but it is not easy to find out true real Guru in this world especially when lots of business gurus are available. So the only way is pray to god that I want to realize you and he will perform his job better he will send the either animate or inanimate guru for sure... so just keep on praying untill you get what u want there is no limit or deadlines for that he may listen you after one minute or may take one trillion or more minutes... so be patients everytime afterall without patients you can't get anything!!!!!

07-11-2008, 05:16 AM	#109
JustinTime catvaarimshát Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK Posts: 41	There is no objektive support for the idea that prayer 'works', only subjective. For those who practise it it might 'work', and for those who believe in it it does 'work' ( logically speaking, or, do my mind psycho -logically).

07-11-2008, 07:16 AM	#110
drkalpesh555 catúr Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: india Posts: 4	As we cant see the air though, there is air (O2) which is essential for our body means it is there and its work but wether you believe or not like that prayer works you believe it or not logically or psycho - logically.

07-11-2008, 08:08 AM	#112
drkalpesh555 catúr Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: india Posts: 4	This is the quote which I can never forget in my life since I heard it before 5 year. It is pleasure for me to read it again from someone else. Thanks dear, jay shree krishna

07-11-2008, 05:39 PM	#113
JustinTime catvaarimshát Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK Posts: 41	Prayer may be 'air(O2)' to you but they differ from eachother inasmuch that 'air(O2)' exists without prayer, has done so for quite some time and - thus far - is not dependent on prayer for its existence, whereas prayer only exists since humans started praying; it is a human invention originating in a human need. When humans are extinct there will no longer be either prayer or the need for it whereas 'air(O2)' in all likelihood will still be around somewhere, if not on this planet perhaps. For me the question is not whether or not one needs a guru but why some humans feel the need for one.

07-12-2008, 12:53 AM	#114
drkalpesh555 catúr Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: india Posts: 4	As someone want to go somewhere he or she must have the guide otherwise He or she may lost or may take longer duration to reach to the target, so to avoid the mistakes and mishapes one feels that there should be the person who allready reached to the target. He can help the initiater to reach the same destination without making errors that he made. This will not only reduces his duration to reach there but also enhances the percentage of surity for success.