Does one need a guru?

Mukunda · 12-19-2005, 04:49 PM

Also on a different subject in class tonight one of my student's asked me if you could work on yourself and follow the yogic path to become self-realized, but without a guru. I explained the yogic tradition and remarked that I doubt it, but would ask you. I also talked about Raman Maharshi. And explained how some people are born with having done most of the work in another lifetime.

But I do believe one need's a guru. What do you think? Suggestions what i should tell her, please?

Mukunda · 12-31-2005, 07:27 PM

It is rare to be like Ramana Maharshi and even he said in past lives a guru brought him to current state. Remind her that it is said that one current guru – Baba Free John said “dead gurus don’t kick ass” and one frequently needs that. If one feels that all their thoughts and activities are perfect then of course they don’t need correction. And can continue to live a life filled with illusion.

The major benefit i received from having a guru was that he gave me discipline which enabled me to retain what tremendous energetic empowerment he gave me. Without being able to hold what was given my mind would be much more unstble than it is. Spiritual practices are just that practices to help us retain our connection to Spirit. That presence is omnipresent and our mind is not. We need help from one who has sustained their spiritual discipline over a long period of time and been approved by their teacher to help others.

The 13th century text, Vasistha's Yoga, is my current favorite read. It describes the intimate relationship of the sage Vasistha to his protege Prince Rama. One recent passage from this text on page 496 (SUNY edition) states "ignorance vanishes through sadhana. Half of your spiritual ignorance is dispelled by the company of the holy ones, one fourth of it is destroyed by the study of scriptures and the other one fourht by self effort." So one without a teacher or spiritual mentor can only do so much. The text as a statement of the yoga tradition highly recommends relying upon the spiritual guide to help the students self effort achieve full benefits. Namaste mukunda

siddhyogi · 03-18-2007, 09:17 AM

"i dont need guru" a person will speak like that then he is a very egoistic person at first look.

because when you are at your study u had many guru's who teach you maths, sciences and other subject. for this thing one need guru as this are the thing which is related to mind use still we want a master in all this subjects.

then when a person is doing a sadhana then he is going to out of mind then at this time he must need as this all are the way which you had not seen and you had not experience.

ramana maharshi is the person who born siddhyogi he never ever want a guru as he is 100 % natural.

Hubert · 03-18-2007, 02:13 PM

I strongly believe that a guru is a must. I also believe that everyone meets one when he/she is ready. When you still think about if you need one or not, you are just not ready yet.

But that does not mean those without a guru (like myself) are doomed. We are just not ready yet. We still need to make efforts. Liberation does not come easy. It doesn't just happens like you go to a guru and you are all set up. If you are not ready, you won't find one, you won't be accepted as a disciple. You might find charlatans though.

But I like to think that for us who are not ready yet for the final part of our journey yet, there are helpers. For example, spiritual books can be gurus too. They might not help you in your specific problems but they can give you the much needed general view. In fact, everyone we meet, every situation can be a guru, if we have the required awareness. Life itself is our guru.

For those like us, a few thoughts.
Everything is just as it should be. This can be hard to accept. One needs strong believe in God and in divine justice. Call it karma if you want. You suffer ? It is for a reason. It is what you need to purify yourself. You will never face situations what are more than you can handle. We might not find our way this life. We might lose focus. We might have to face illness or even death. But if we are aware and believe strongly in divine justice we can reduce our debt. Next life we will start in a better place. We will face fewer obstacles.
Faith and dispair cannot coexist. But sometimes we need to dispair in order to find faith.

justwannabe · 03-18-2007, 02:14 PM

tough question
do you need one, I would say no you do not have to have one
would it be better to have one, I would say yes.
one to study under will speed up the learning proces I believe but then again you will never learn faster then you are ready. Correct me if I am wrong but yoga teaches us that we are what we need and all we need is ourselves? what is a guru? I have a hard time finding yoga people in person who can answer many of my questions, so I turn to books and find many answers. I ask on here and get some answers. everyone in existence is your teacher if you know how to learn from them. People see a "bum" on the streets, what can be learned from that "bum"? Also, different people have different streghts. a lady I work with talks of her meditation and I learn from here. My yoga teacher is largely focused on asanas and contemplation, I have friends who know some things about diet, etc.... So with multiple people, each specializing in a few areas, I can cover all the limbs and branches.

yoga also like non attachment, needing something is attachment. What if I have a guru and want to move, should I worry that I will not find myself? Also, a lot of people have egos and sometimes teachers get upset if you stray from their teachings. worrying about answering to someone, a guru, might hinder someone. I met a guy who grew up in a buhdist monestarty untill he was 16, he talked about levetation being commmon where he was from and e had spiritual conversations with everyone I saw him meet. It was an interesting experience. He was very "yogic" in many things he did but he also, to me, seemed to justify and not answer to his things that he did that were kind of non yogic and used his knowledge to justify to others. If you went by his teachings and tried to adapt all of them, you may end up witht he same flaws.

If you have a guru do you look up to that person? anytime you place someone higher then yourself you set them up to fall down at the first sign of a flaw. People see Jesus as being pure, well that if they though he had sex with woman, would that make him fall in their eyes? I do not see people such a jesus, buhda, ghandi, etc.... as being greater then myself. I see us all as equals. Jesus said soemthing like, "these things I do you shall do and greater" not an exact quote but kind of th point of it.

do you need a guru? everyone and everything is your guru!
the question is a tough one because it is not black and white. Personally i would want to surround myself with aware spiritual beings, but do I need to have that or I will not find myself, a lot to think about.

thanks for asking the question, it was fun to think about.
enjoy the journey
seeker

gartxott · 03-20-2007, 05:47 AM

I would tell her Yes even if this may not be so, in order to not discourage her.

justwannabe · 03-20-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gartxott

I would tell her Yes even if this may not be so, in order to not discourage her.

if it may not be true, woudl that be deception?

Hubert · 03-20-2007, 02:11 PM

I'd tell her to make every effort to perfect herself. Yama and Niyama must be taken very seriously. I'd tell her to practice dispassion in everything. The first thing a disciple has to learn is pacience. Not the usual pacience obtained by short term self restraint, but the pacience only a stone has. One must be able to just be, without waiting for anything. Also I'd tell her to develop respect for everything. Criticism is a form of disrespect. If one wants to learn higher truths, one must be able to put away one's judgements, and just be a witness. Think of a child when he/she learns something totally new. Does he/she criticise and have opinions ? No. We all are children regarding the spiritual worlds. That's why, as adults we must learn how to forget everything we think we know. (because in reality all our knowledge we got through our senses is circumstancial and limited)
In fact, you, who give the advice, must try to know the person as much as you are able, and give her advice as you see fit. A simple yes or not might be misleading.

Rashmi · 03-21-2007, 11:00 PM

A guru is required to straighten your ego/ahanar, your weakness it is like to expose the beauty of diamond a jeweller is required.A guru however should be chosen with lot of care as he himself should be a gyani and realised person finally pray to god for a realised guru. God is revealed by a guru. Even higly advanced soul who take rebirth for some purpose seek guru in the presenr births eg Lord Rama , Lord Krishrna, Adi shankaracharya, Shirdi sai baba, Swami Akkal kot,etc.

justwannabe · 03-22-2007, 08:14 AM

could god not be revealed without a guru?

YogSadhak · 03-29-2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lt_rashmi@rediffmail.com

A guru however should be chosen with lot of care as he himself should be a gyani and realised person finally pray to god for a realised guru.

Namaste !

How does one choose a GURU ? Or does one really chooses a GURU ? From my spiritual practise I am under impression that actually we are not the one who really chooses a GURU. Its when we are "READY" ... the GURU himself appears before us... or finds us... isnt it true ?

Hari OM !

Hubert · 03-29-2007, 03:57 PM

Is it true ? I think it is. Or rather, I believe it is so as you say, Sadhak.

Hubert · 03-29-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubeseeker

could god not be revealed without a guru?

Once, there was a flood. The priest climbed to the rooftop, but the water was rising. He than prayed to God to save him. A boat came, but the priest was sure God will save him, so he did not enter. He continued to pray. After a while, a second boat came. The priest had strong belief in God and passed. His God will save him. The third boat came, and he still did not enter. He continued to pray. Than he heard a mighty voice: I already sent three boats for you. Man, what is your problem ?

A guru is a boat. Why should we want to escape the flood without a boat ? It is probably possible but much harder and much more dangerous.

InnerAthlete · 03-29-2007, 04:34 PM

The answer is that it depends on what aspiration the student is seeking at this time. There may not be need for a Guru right now. Tomorrow there may be great need. Having a guru simply for the sake of having one serves nothing. If you are not ready to have lght shined then a light shiner is not needed.

All of us are egoistic (or egotistic) this includes many self proclaimed masters or gurus. So the student who says "I do not need a guru" is just like the rest of us. Perhaps manifesting in a different way but let he who is devoid of all ego speak up first. In other words, the yogi who lives in a glass ashram should not throw the wooden block.

Of course god can be revealed without a guru. many things CAN happen. But if one is trying to bring the divine life force down into the body there are many pitfalls (including self deception, aversion, attachment, ego, and the fear of death) along the way. How do you know the god revealed is not a contrivance of the mind? David Berkowitz claimed that he was instructed by god. David Koresh may have well claimed something similar. More recently many terrorist claim it is god telling them to strap explosives to thier bodies and detonate themselves in public places. Have they all found god?

**Mirjana** · 03-30-2007, 06:56 AM

I don't question if one needs guru. I rather belive one needs to deserve a guru. I belive one needs to prepare him/herself to meet a guru. So yes I believe one should work on him/herself and follow the yogic path....

Sometimes I have a feeling that we expect of a guru that he will do a work instead of us. In that case we should be really careful who that is.

But I think it is a bit too optimistic that we could just select a guru.

justwannabe · 03-30-2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hubert

Once, there was a flood. The priest climbed to the rooftop, but the water was rising. He than prayed to God to save him. A boat came, but the priest was sure God will save him, so he did not enter. He continued to pray. After a while, a second boat came. The priest had strong belief in God and passed. His God will save him. The third boat came, and he still did not enter. He continued to pray. Than he heard a mighty voice: I already sent three boats for you. Man, what is your problem ?

A guru is a boat. Why should we want to escape the flood without a boat ? It is probably possible but much harder and much more dangerous.

the priest lacked faith, if his faith had been as strong as the faith of someone such as jesus he would have just walked off the roof and not needed a boat

just pulling your leg, in all seriousness I understand the point.

siddhyogi · 03-31-2007, 12:03 PM

Dear yogasadhak

i am totally agree with you statement that when your time will come you will find a guru automatically, but till that you have to search for the right one so your karma will decreases and at the end of good karm you will find a real guru.

because in today's world you will find that every person want to be a guru so it is a work like a finding a needle from the garden of grass.

God had given me a very good chance to be with mine guru for that i am very much thank full to him and partically lord krishna to give me practical knowledge and experience.

hari om tatsat

Meditation, Meditation Techniques, Kundalini Yoga, Prana Healing, Kirlian Photography, Mantra Yoga, Relaxation Techniques, Kundalini Shaktipat, Advance Yoga, Meditation Retreats - Siddhyog Meditation
Meditation, Meditation Techniques, Kundalini Yoga, Prana Healing, Kirlian Photography, Mantra Yoga, Relaxation Techniques, Kundalini Shaktipat, Advance Yoga, Meditation Retreats - Siddhyog Meditation
siddhyog@hotmail.com

Hubert · 03-31-2007, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubeseeker

the priest lacked faith, if his faith had been as strong as the faith of someone such as jesus he would have just walked off the roof and not needed a boat

just pulling your leg, in all seriousness I understand the point.

Heh. Somehow I knew you'll say that. Good point.

justwannabe · 04-01-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hubert

Heh. Somehow I knew you'll say that. Good point.

,

Madelaine heinemann · 04-02-2007, 04:41 AM

Because a few rare beings have become Self realized with out a Guru in this lifetime I would say it is possible. In the infinate is'nt anything possible other wise it wouldn't be everything all possibilities. Being in the presence of Guru excellerates ones spiritual awareness, as they are able to facilitate a direct experience which can provide the foundation and roots of ones practice, they can lead as they have trodden the path. I was taught that you can only experince outer guru in direct proprtion to ones relationship to inner Guru, and it is only when you see no difference between outer Guru and inner that you can be receptive to all aspects and depths of the transmission that takes place. I would also agree that eventually one should percieve ourselves and everthing around us as Guru, but this is quite a leap for most of us, so the dicipline love and guidence of a master can bridge that gap, and lead us closer to this eventual unity and experience of everything as omnipresent.

Om shanti
Namaste
Madelaine

Hubert · 04-02-2007, 05:23 AM

Thank you Madelaine.

I was aware that we must see anyone and everything as atman, as something with the same essence and the same consiousness (same, not similar !) as ours. Than, if I think of what you said, I think atman is our inner guru, and atman is also the outer guru.

siddhyogi · 04-02-2007, 10:45 AM

Dear medelaine

i am totally agree with your statement that once inner guru will arise then there are no need of outer guru?

but the thing is that how many of us are able to find inner guru ???

mine thinking is that when we were in school then at that time for every subject we had a diffrent masters which shows us some techniques to learn that subect very faster by use of their experience. that,s why we go to tuition or special classes right id we want master in this small type of matters to understand those things

Now here in spiritual practices main thing is that we dont know about the thing and we had just jeard all that so if a experienced person is there to help us then there is nothing bad in to that till the time we are able to reach our inner guru.

thanks

siddhyog@hotmail.org
Meditation, Meditation Techniques, Kundalini Yoga, Prana Healing, Kirlian Photography, Mantra Yoga, Relaxation Techniques, Kundalini Shaktipat, Advance Yoga, Meditation Retreats - Siddhyog Meditation

justwannabe · 04-02-2007, 12:37 PM

an outer guru, can it make you find your inner guru?

Hubert · 04-03-2007, 06:08 AM

Yes. But I think of it as a very unpleasant experience.

What if the guru says you must climb the tree and throw yourself to the ground with your head forward ?
I heard a story like this. All disciples refused, but one. That one was saved by the guru, but doing this, he gained instant liberation. (Samadhi)

Or think of Peter walking the water. Initiation can be done by means like this, in the presence of a liberated soul. Still, today it might not be necessary. Reason is much stronger in us today, and it can be a powerful tool to understanding.

justwannabe · 04-03-2007, 07:55 AM

peter walked on water but he must have had some belief and faith in what jesus said otherwise would he have tried? If he doubted what jesus said 100% he would not have made that first step. To follow the advice of an outer guru, that is an inner choice and can only happen when the inner guru is ready?

Madelaine heinemann · 04-03-2007, 09:40 AM

slight confusion, I definately do think the physical presence of Guru accelates ones spiritual progress. The Guru can facilitate direct experience of the Self, he/she can then then help us sustain this connection through observation of our Klesas and guidance as to appropriate practices to diminish them. Just as we are all the Self but don't realise our true nature, it can be the same with our Guru, becuse of our mental obstuctions we just don't recognise him or any one or anything else as the Self. When we do all is Guru/Self/Atman/ Brahman?

03-18-2007, 02:14 PM	#5
justwannabe pañcashata Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 539	tough question do you need one, I would say no you do not have to have one would it be better to have one, I would say yes. one to study under will speed up the learning proces I believe but then again you will never learn faster then you are ready. Correct me if I am wrong but yoga teaches us that we are what we need and all we need is ourselves? what is a guru? I have a hard time finding yoga people in person who can answer many of my questions, so I turn to books and find many answers. I ask on here and get some answers. everyone in existence is your teacher if you know how to learn from them. People see a "bum" on the streets, what can be learned from that "bum"? Also, different people have different streghts. a lady I work with talks of her meditation and I learn from here. My yoga teacher is largely focused on asanas and contemplation, I have friends who know some things about diet, etc.... So with multiple people, each specializing in a few areas, I can cover all the limbs and branches. yoga also like non attachment, needing something is attachment. What if I have a guru and want to move, should I worry that I will not find myself? Also, a lot of people have egos and sometimes teachers get upset if you stray from their teachings. worrying about answering to someone, a guru, might hinder someone. I met a guy who grew up in a buhdist monestarty untill he was 16, he talked about levetation being commmon where he was from and e had spiritual conversations with everyone I saw him meet. It was an interesting experience. He was very "yogic" in many things he did but he also, to me, seemed to justify and not answer to his things that he did that were kind of non yogic and used his knowledge to justify to others. If you went by his teachings and tried to adapt all of them, you may end up witht he same flaws. If you have a guru do you look up to that person? anytime you place someone higher then yourself you set them up to fall down at the first sign of a flaw. People see Jesus as being pure, well that if they though he had sex with woman, would that make him fall in their eyes? I do not see people such a jesus, buhda, ghandi, etc.... as being greater then myself. I see us all as equals. Jesus said soemthing like, "these things I do you shall do and greater" not an exact quote but kind of th point of it. do you need a guru? everyone and everything is your guru! the question is a tough one because it is not black and white. Personally i would want to surround myself with aware spiritual beings, but do I need to have that or I will not find myself, a lot to think about. thanks for asking the question, it was fun to think about. enjoy the journey seeker __________________ I am light, I am love, I am peace, I am kindness, I am happiness, I am here, it is now. I am, and so are you

03-20-2007, 05:47 AM	#6
gartxott Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: bhu loka Posts: 47	I would tell her Yes even if this may not be so, in order to not discourage her. __________________ . 3~

03-22-2007, 08:14 AM	#10
justwannabe pañcashata Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 539	could god not be revealed without a guru? __________________ I am light, I am love, I am peace, I am kindness, I am happiness, I am here, it is now. I am, and so are you

03-29-2007, 04:34 PM	#14
InnerAthlete Mostly Good Egg Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Certified Purna Yoga Teacher - Seattle, WA Posts: 1,035	The answer is that it depends on what aspiration the student is seeking at this time. There may not be need for a Guru right now. Tomorrow there may be great need. Having a guru simply for the sake of having one serves nothing. If you are not ready to have lght shined then a light shiner is not needed. All of us are egoistic (or egotistic) this includes many self proclaimed masters or gurus. So the student who says "I do not need a guru" is just like the rest of us. Perhaps manifesting in a different way but let he who is devoid of all ego speak up first. In other words, the yogi who lives in a glass ashram should not throw the wooden block. Of course god can be revealed without a guru. many things CAN happen. But if one is trying to bring the divine life force down into the body there are many pitfalls (including self deception, aversion, attachment, ego, and the fear of death) along the way. How do you know the god revealed is not a contrivance of the mind? David Berkowitz claimed that he was instructed by god. David Koresh may have well claimed something similar. More recently many terrorist claim it is god telling them to strap explosives to thier bodies and detonate themselves in public places. Have they all found god? __________________ ---- http://www.yogamojodojo.com http://www.teamyoga.com http://www.innerathlete.net/forum

04-02-2007, 12:37 PM	#23
justwannabe pañcashata Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 539	an outer guru, can it make you find your inner guru? __________________ I am light, I am love, I am peace, I am kindness, I am happiness, I am here, it is now. I am, and so are you

12-19-2005, 04:49 PM	#1
Mukunda SYTherapy Creator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Yoga Therapist and trainer Posts: 1,068	Also on a different subject in class tonight one of my student's asked me if you could work on yourself and follow the yogic path to become self-realized, but without a guru. I explained the yogic tradition and remarked that I doubt it, but would ask you. I also talked about Raman Maharshi. And explained how some people are born with having done most of the work in another lifetime. But I do believe one need's a guru. What do you think? Suggestions what i should tell her, please?

12-31-2005, 07:27 PM	#2
Mukunda SYTherapy Creator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Yoga Therapist and trainer Posts: 1,068	It is rare to be like Ramana Maharshi and even he said in past lives a guru brought him to current state. Remind her that it is said that one current guru – Baba Free John said “dead gurus don’t kick ass” and one frequently needs that. If one feels that all their thoughts and activities are perfect then of course they don’t need correction. And can continue to live a life filled with illusion. The major benefit i received from having a guru was that he gave me discipline which enabled me to retain what tremendous energetic empowerment he gave me. Without being able to hold what was given my mind would be much more unstble than it is. Spiritual practices are just that practices to help us retain our connection to Spirit. That presence is omnipresent and our mind is not. We need help from one who has sustained their spiritual discipline over a long period of time and been approved by their teacher to help others. The 13th century text, Vasistha's Yoga, is my current favorite read. It describes the intimate relationship of the sage Vasistha to his protege Prince Rama. One recent passage from this text on page 496 (SUNY edition) states "ignorance vanishes through sadhana. Half of your spiritual ignorance is dispelled by the company of the holy ones, one fourth of it is destroyed by the study of scriptures and the other one fourht by self effort." So one without a teacher or spiritual mentor can only do so much. The text as a statement of the yoga tradition highly recommends relying upon the spiritual guide to help the students self effort achieve full benefits. Namaste mukunda

03-18-2007, 09:17 AM	#3
siddhyogi Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: INDIA Posts: 32	"i dont need guru" a person will speak like that then he is a very egoistic person at first look. because when you are at your study u had many guru's who teach you maths, sciences and other subject. for this thing one need guru as this are the thing which is related to mind use still we want a master in all this subjects. then when a person is doing a sadhana then he is going to out of mind then at this time he must need as this all are the way which you had not seen and you had not experience. ramana maharshi is the person who born siddhyogi he never ever want a guru as he is 100 % natural.

03-18-2007, 02:13 PM	#4
Hubert saptashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 755	I strongly believe that a guru is a must. I also believe that everyone meets one when he/she is ready. When you still think about if you need one or not, you are just not ready yet. But that does not mean those without a guru (like myself) are doomed. We are just not ready yet. We still need to make efforts. Liberation does not come easy. It doesn't just happens like you go to a guru and you are all set up. If you are not ready, you won't find one, you won't be accepted as a disciple. You might find charlatans though. But I like to think that for us who are not ready yet for the final part of our journey yet, there are helpers. For example, spiritual books can be gurus too. They might not help you in your specific problems but they can give you the much needed general view. In fact, everyone we meet, every situation can be a guru, if we have the required awareness. Life itself is our guru. For those like us, a few thoughts. Everything is just as it should be. This can be hard to accept. One needs strong believe in God and in divine justice. Call it karma if you want. You suffer ? It is for a reason. It is what you need to purify yourself. You will never face situations what are more than you can handle. We might not find our way this life. We might lose focus. We might have to face illness or even death. But if we are aware and believe strongly in divine justice we can reduce our debt. Next life we will start in a better place. We will face fewer obstacles. Faith and dispair cannot coexist. But sometimes we need to dispair in order to find faith.

03-20-2007, 02:11 PM	#8
Hubert saptashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 755	I'd tell her to make every effort to perfect herself. Yama and Niyama must be taken very seriously. I'd tell her to practice dispassion in everything. The first thing a disciple has to learn is pacience. Not the usual pacience obtained by short term self restraint, but the pacience only a stone has. One must be able to just be, without waiting for anything. Also I'd tell her to develop respect for everything. Criticism is a form of disrespect. If one wants to learn higher truths, one must be able to put away one's judgements, and just be a witness. Think of a child when he/she learns something totally new. Does he/she criticise and have opinions ? No. We all are children regarding the spiritual worlds. That's why, as adults we must learn how to forget everything we think we know. (because in reality all our knowledge we got through our senses is circumstancial and limited) In fact, you, who give the advice, must try to know the person as much as you are able, and give her advice as you see fit. A simple yes or not might be misleading.

03-21-2007, 11:00 PM	#9
Rashmi shatá Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: india Posts: 125	A guru is required to straighten your ego/ahanar, your weakness it is like to expose the beauty of diamond a jeweller is required.A guru however should be chosen with lot of care as he himself should be a gyani and realised person finally pray to god for a realised guru. God is revealed by a guru. Even higly advanced soul who take rebirth for some purpose seek guru in the presenr births eg Lord Rama , Lord Krishrna, Adi shankaracharya, Shirdi sai baba, Swami Akkal kot,etc.

03-29-2007, 03:57 PM	#12
Hubert saptashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 755	Is it true ? I think it is. Or rather, I believe it is so as you say, Sadhak.

03-30-2007, 06:56 AM	#15
Mirjana Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 268	I don't question if one needs guru. I rather belive one needs to deserve a guru. I belive one needs to prepare him/herself to meet a guru. So yes I believe one should work on him/herself and follow the yogic path.... Sometimes I have a feeling that we expect of a guru that he will do a work instead of us. In that case we should be really careful who that is. But I think it is a bit too optimistic that we could just select a guru.

03-31-2007, 12:03 PM	#17
siddhyogi Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: INDIA Posts: 32	Dear yogasadhak i am totally agree with you statement that when your time will come you will find a guru automatically, but till that you have to search for the right one so your karma will decreases and at the end of good karm you will find a real guru. because in today's world you will find that every person want to be a guru so it is a work like a finding a needle from the garden of grass. God had given me a very good chance to be with mine guru for that i am very much thank full to him and partically lord krishna to give me practical knowledge and experience. hari om tatsat Meditation, Meditation Techniques, Kundalini Yoga, Prana Healing, Kirlian Photography, Mantra Yoga, Relaxation Techniques, Kundalini Shaktipat, Advance Yoga, Meditation Retreats - Siddhyog Meditation Meditation, Meditation Techniques, Kundalini Yoga, Prana Healing, Kirlian Photography, Mantra Yoga, Relaxation Techniques, Kundalini Shaktipat, Advance Yoga, Meditation Retreats - Siddhyog Meditation siddhyog@hotmail.com

04-02-2007, 04:41 AM	#20
Madelaine heinemann Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London Posts: 16	Because a few rare beings have become Self realized with out a Guru in this lifetime I would say it is possible. In the infinate is'nt anything possible other wise it wouldn't be everything all possibilities. Being in the presence of Guru excellerates ones spiritual awareness, as they are able to facilitate a direct experience which can provide the foundation and roots of ones practice, they can lead as they have trodden the path. I was taught that you can only experince outer guru in direct proprtion to ones relationship to inner Guru, and it is only when you see no difference between outer Guru and inner that you can be receptive to all aspects and depths of the transmission that takes place. I would also agree that eventually one should percieve ourselves and everthing around us as Guru, but this is quite a leap for most of us, so the dicipline love and guidence of a master can bridge that gap, and lead us closer to this eventual unity and experience of everything as omnipresent. Om shanti Namaste Madelaine

04-02-2007, 05:23 AM	#21
Hubert saptashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 755	Thank you Madelaine. I was aware that we must see anyone and everything as atman, as something with the same essence and the same consiousness (same, not similar !) as ours. Than, if I think of what you said, I think atman is our inner guru, and atman is also the outer guru.

04-02-2007, 10:45 AM	#22
siddhyogi Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: INDIA Posts: 32	Dear medelaine i am totally agree with your statement that once inner guru will arise then there are no need of outer guru? but the thing is that how many of us are able to find inner guru ??? mine thinking is that when we were in school then at that time for every subject we had a diffrent masters which shows us some techniques to learn that subect very faster by use of their experience. that,s why we go to tuition or special classes right id we want master in this small type of matters to understand those things Now here in spiritual practices main thing is that we dont know about the thing and we had just jeard all that so if a experienced person is there to help us then there is nothing bad in to that till the time we are able to reach our inner guru. thanks siddhyog@hotmail.org Meditation, Meditation Techniques, Kundalini Yoga, Prana Healing, Kirlian Photography, Mantra Yoga, Relaxation Techniques, Kundalini Shaktipat, Advance Yoga, Meditation Retreats - Siddhyog Meditation

04-03-2007, 06:08 AM	#24
Hubert saptashata Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 755	Yes. But I think of it as a very unpleasant experience. What if the guru says you must climb the tree and throw yourself to the ground with your head forward ? I heard a story like this. All disciples refused, but one. That one was saved by the guru, but doing this, he gained instant liberation. (Samadhi) Or think of Peter walking the water. Initiation can be done by means like this, in the presence of a liberated soul. Still, today it might not be necessary. Reason is much stronger in us today, and it can be a powerful tool to understanding. Last edited by Hubert; 04-03-2007 at 06:13 AM.

04-03-2007, 07:55 AM	#25
justwannabe pañcashata Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 539	peter walked on water but he must have had some belief and faith in what jesus said otherwise would he have tried? If he doubted what jesus said 100% he would not have made that first step. To follow the advice of an outer guru, that is an inner choice and can only happen when the inner guru is ready? __________________ I am light, I am love, I am peace, I am kindness, I am happiness, I am here, it is now. I am, and so are you

04-03-2007, 09:40 AM	#26
Madelaine heinemann Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London Posts: 16	slight confusion, I definately do think the physical presence of Guru accelates ones spiritual progress. The Guru can facilitate direct experience of the Self, he/she can then then help us sustain this connection through observation of our Klesas and guidance as to appropriate practices to diminish them. Just as we are all the Self but don't realise our true nature, it can be the same with our Guru, becuse of our mental obstuctions we just don't recognise him or any one or anything else as the Self. When we do all is Guru/Self/Atman/ Brahman?