Tantrik sex?

gartxott · 06-30-2006, 02:13 PM

Dear Mukunda

I post this message in the hope of throwing some light on a subject that in my opinion has led to serious misconceptions.

Some sources of doubtable trust that lately have aroused in western countries, speak of certain yogic sexual practices by which the kundalini could be awakened. These practices should be complemented with a yogic shadana. The sources refer to things like coition, retaining orgasm, mantra chanting and tantrik worship. They also claim that a prolonged celibacy is harmful.

I have recently read Arthur Avalon's "Shakti and Shakta" and concerning to Pancha Tatwa ritual which is practiced by the vira shadakas of the vamachara hand, we could summarise: It is of a psychological value, lust and gluttony are sublimated as mamsa, matsya, madya, mudra and maithuna are had by offering them to the worshiped devata. By no means it refers to pranic interactions between man's and woman's nadis and chakras, or stirring the kundalini by amassing sexual energy and so forth. It barely speaks of Avichara or black magic.

Is there any tantra shastra in which things like that are told?

Other serious sources like vedanta, speak of bearing total celibacy as preserving one's virya is of a paramount importance. One drop of semen would equal to hundred of blood. Couldn't virya come to gross state in semen by the practice of coition, even if it is on a mood of spirituallity and practiced by pure-minded shadakas?

Is all that sex-magic stuff real? Is prolonged celibacy harmful?

As you can see i'm quite confused and ignorant in this respect.

Thank you in advance.

Gartxot

Mukunda · 08-25-2006, 05:03 PM

This is a series of very good questions, showing sincerity of sadhana. In general this dialog reveals the difficutlies one encounters in reading about a practice without meeting a teacher who can guide one in such methods. From the outside such practices as expressing sexuality in a Tantrik context or repressing sexuality as in a Vedantic process seem at odds. However, I truly feel that all paths are valid and can awaken a sincere student to the spiritual life (which some speak of as Kundalini Devi or the Holy Ghost). There are questions about the left hand (vamachara) unless one has an authentic teacher itrained in this lineage of secret or twilight language.
Texts are rarely written by masters. More often than not they arise from students taking notes from the masters oral teaching, sometimes without the masters blessings or edits. One must search dilligently to find a tantrik text that meets the qualifications of shedding light on a tried and true sadhana that moves toward sattvic liberation vs. one that merely increases rajasic or tamasic states of experience. Along this area there are only a few that i can recommend and they give little to the sexual exchange as a path of sadhana. The Yoga Spandakarikas written by Daniel Odier has within it the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra which is the best of all the Tantrik works. VBT only gives 4 techniques of 112 that are sexual in nature. This is a valid text for expressing sexuality as an aspect of a sincere spiritual path. I recently wrote a chapter entitled The Nectar of Tantrik Sex for a recently published anthology called The Marriage of Sex and Spirit. Here i describe some methods from this path that i have personally benefited from.
Vedantic texts are much more orthodox and cautious. They promote celibacy for sincere seekers, just so we are clear both are called tantra but one is white (without passion) other red (passion). Sex magic seems real for those seeking worldly powers. Celibacy can cause harm in those who are sublimiating their natural drives. For those for whom celibacy is naturally arising or those seeking a brief break from relationship it is most healthy.
Inner guidance takes precedence over explanations of what experiences mean and how they should or shouldn't come. That is my prime feeling about all sadhanas.
I have written an 18 lesson course on Tantra that includes kundalini, tantrik sex, devotion to divine, and basic healing energy practices. free by joining my email list at www.yogatherapycenter.org
blessings on your path to your heart. namaste mukunda

gartxott · 09-03-2006, 02:24 PM

Sat Nam Mukunda!

I have read the VBT. It's a good text, brief but concentrated. However, that regarding to sex is in my opinion twilighted, let me post some (and forgive my translation from spanish):

45. In the interval between <<fire>> and <<poison>>, let consciousness be fixed on what is nothing but joy. Then consciousness is isolated, fills up with breath, and is united to the bliss of love.

46. At the end of the union, at the moment that the absorption of the intense energy of the woman ends, it is the Joy of Brahman's Reality what is beeing enjoyed: and this is exactly what is called 'intimate joy'.

Could you comment this, please?

Otherwise, you say that celibacy can cause harm in those who are sublimating their natural drives. I suspect that a man who looks to young women and feels desire, must belong to that group.

Actually i bear an unbroken celibacy from 14 months ago. Sometimes, once in a month, i unintentionally ejaculate while dreaming.

How could i know if celibacy is harming me? Which are the signs?

Thank you very much Mukunda

Gartxot

Mukunda · 09-03-2006, 05:26 PM

This translation is of course different as well as the sutra numbers being different. I will refer to one by Daniel Odier in his book Yoga Spandakarika. These appear to be sutras 69-70.
Upon union with your beloved partner, consciousness is at its peak; mind as thought, conditioned awareness and action is minimized. It is at this time that one can learn the difference between awareness as a transient mental function and consciousness as a permanent state that is the True Self. The breath that arises from this union is pure Shakti, the energy of the Devi. It is not merely biological energy of prana. But rather is supercharged with the divine presence which is readily available to both. This feeling of intimacy that accompanies all true love making as contrasted with having sex, is a profound intimate joy of communion not only with your partner but with the Divine Presence as your selves or as a 3rd presence.

One who suppresses sexual expression through brief periods - up to 2 years - can be very healthy as a way of regrouping after intense intimacy, accidents, or emotional traumas. When one is healthy they will realize that the natural attraction to the opposite sex is pulling them and at an appropriate time they feel a release from this brief period of celibacy. When celibacy is naturally arising it will also naturally cease. For some who never felt arousal these rare individuals may be lifelong celibates, they are rare. Anything other than that is suppression and the harm caused by this can be health problems of physical or emotional nature. We are creative and this suppression can take a multitude of forms from not laughing freely, prostate or uterine cancers, criticism of those in relations, etc.

This specific question was addressed by me in my new book The Marriage of Sex and Spirit, see bookstore on my webiste. More details on progressing toward this sadhana are available by signing up for the full course via my website - www.yogatherapycenter.org namaste mukunda

gartxott · 09-06-2006, 08:55 AM

I understand. Just a last question:

Should virya/semen be preserved in order to build ojas or grow spiritually? Or is it just a vedic superstition?

Thank you

Mukunda · 09-07-2006, 09:42 PM

There are 3 energies built by spiritual practice -- from vata evolution comes prana; from pitta comes tejas; and from kapha comes ojas. Ojas is a nectar elixir liquid that arises from being in love; loving the divine or your human beloved. It is not necessary to be celibate to build it. Vegetarian diet, healthy human relationships that restrain ejaculation for men but encourage orgasm for women, being kind to others, seeing God within all creation all will enhance these 3 subtle energies. Vedic teachings are often cited as reasons for spiritual practices and evaluating their efficacy. In my experience very few celibates develop ojas; but those in loving relationship who withhold ejaculation do develop ojas. namaste mukunda

gartxott · 09-09-2006, 05:17 AM

It is reasonable. Thank you for your help.

Namaste

06-30-2006, 02:13 PM	#1
gartxott Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 47	Tantrik sex? Dear Mukunda I post this message in the hope of throwing some light on a subject that in my opinion has led to serious misconceptions. Some sources of doubtable trust that lately have aroused in western countries, speak of certain yogic sexual practices by which the kundalini could be awakened. These practices should be complemented with a yogic shadana. The sources refer to things like coition, retaining orgasm, mantra chanting and tantrik worship. They also claim that a prolonged celibacy is harmful. I have recently read Arthur Avalon's "Shakti and Shakta" and concerning to Pancha Tatwa ritual which is practiced by the vira shadakas of the vamachara hand, we could summarise: It is of a psychological value, lust and gluttony are sublimated as mamsa, matsya, madya, mudra and maithuna are had by offering them to the worshiped devata. By no means it refers to pranic interactions between man's and woman's nadis and chakras, or stirring the kundalini by amassing sexual energy and so forth. It barely speaks of Avichara or black magic. Is there any tantra shastra in which things like that are told? Other serious sources like vedanta, speak of bearing total celibacy as preserving one's virya is of a paramount importance. One drop of semen would equal to hundred of blood. Couldn't virya come to gross state in semen by the practice of coition, even if it is on a mood of spirituallity and practiced by pure-minded shadakas? Is all that sex-magic stuff real? Is prolonged celibacy harmful? As you can see i'm quite confused and ignorant in this respect. Thank you in advance. Gartxot __________________ . 3~

08-25-2006, 05:03 PM	#2
Mukunda SYTherapy Creator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,068	Tantrik Sex This is a series of very good questions, showing sincerity of sadhana. In general this dialog reveals the difficutlies one encounters in reading about a practice without meeting a teacher who can guide one in such methods. From the outside such practices as expressing sexuality in a Tantrik context or repressing sexuality as in a Vedantic process seem at odds. However, I truly feel that all paths are valid and can awaken a sincere student to the spiritual life (which some speak of as Kundalini Devi or the Holy Ghost). There are questions about the left hand (vamachara) unless one has an authentic teacher itrained in this lineage of secret or twilight language. Texts are rarely written by masters. More often than not they arise from students taking notes from the masters oral teaching, sometimes without the masters blessings or edits. One must search dilligently to find a tantrik text that meets the qualifications of shedding light on a tried and true sadhana that moves toward sattvic liberation vs. one that merely increases rajasic or tamasic states of experience. Along this area there are only a few that i can recommend and they give little to the sexual exchange as a path of sadhana. The Yoga Spandakarikas written by Daniel Odier has within it the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra which is the best of all the Tantrik works. VBT only gives 4 techniques of 112 that are sexual in nature. This is a valid text for expressing sexuality as an aspect of a sincere spiritual path. I recently wrote a chapter entitled The Nectar of Tantrik Sex for a recently published anthology called The Marriage of Sex and Spirit. Here i describe some methods from this path that i have personally benefited from. Vedantic texts are much more orthodox and cautious. They promote celibacy for sincere seekers, just so we are clear both are called tantra but one is white (without passion) other red (passion). Sex magic seems real for those seeking worldly powers. Celibacy can cause harm in those who are sublimiating their natural drives. For those for whom celibacy is naturally arising or those seeking a brief break from relationship it is most healthy. Inner guidance takes precedence over explanations of what experiences mean and how they should or shouldn't come. That is my prime feeling about all sadhanas. I have written an 18 lesson course on Tantra that includes kundalini, tantrik sex, devotion to divine, and basic healing energy practices. free by joining my email list at www.yogatherapycenter.org blessings on your path to your heart. namaste mukunda

09-03-2006, 02:24 PM	#3
gartxott Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 47	Vijnana Bhairava Tantra Sat Nam Mukunda! I have read the VBT. It's a good text, brief but concentrated. However, that regarding to sex is in my opinion twilighted, let me post some (and forgive my translation from spanish): 45. In the interval between <<fire>> and <<poison>>, let consciousness be fixed on what is nothing but joy. Then consciousness is isolated, fills up with breath, and is united to the bliss of love. 46. At the end of the union, at the moment that the absorption of the intense energy of the woman ends, it is the Joy of Brahman's Reality what is beeing enjoyed: and this is exactly what is called 'intimate joy'. Could you comment this, please? Otherwise, you say that celibacy can cause harm in those who are sublimating their natural drives. I suspect that a man who looks to young women and feels desire, must belong to that group. Actually i bear an unbroken celibacy from 14 months ago. Sometimes, once in a month, i unintentionally ejaculate while dreaming. How could i know if celibacy is harming me? Which are the signs? Thank you very much Mukunda Gartxot __________________ . 3~

09-03-2006, 05:26 PM	#4
Mukunda SYTherapy Creator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,068	Tantrik Sex This translation is of course different as well as the sutra numbers being different. I will refer to one by Daniel Odier in his book Yoga Spandakarika. These appear to be sutras 69-70. Upon union with your beloved partner, consciousness is at its peak; mind as thought, conditioned awareness and action is minimized. It is at this time that one can learn the difference between awareness as a transient mental function and consciousness as a permanent state that is the True Self. The breath that arises from this union is pure Shakti, the energy of the Devi. It is not merely biological energy of prana. But rather is supercharged with the divine presence which is readily available to both. This feeling of intimacy that accompanies all true love making as contrasted with having sex, is a profound intimate joy of communion not only with your partner but with the Divine Presence as your selves or as a 3rd presence. One who suppresses sexual expression through brief periods - up to 2 years - can be very healthy as a way of regrouping after intense intimacy, accidents, or emotional traumas. When one is healthy they will realize that the natural attraction to the opposite sex is pulling them and at an appropriate time they feel a release from this brief period of celibacy. When celibacy is naturally arising it will also naturally cease. For some who never felt arousal these rare individuals may be lifelong celibates, they are rare. Anything other than that is suppression and the harm caused by this can be health problems of physical or emotional nature. We are creative and this suppression can take a multitude of forms from not laughing freely, prostate or uterine cancers, criticism of those in relations, etc. This specific question was addressed by me in my new book The Marriage of Sex and Spirit, see bookstore on my webiste. More details on progressing toward this sadhana are available by signing up for the full course via my website - www.yogatherapycenter.org namaste mukunda

09-06-2006, 08:55 AM	#5
gartxott Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 47	Last question I understand. Just a last question: Should virya/semen be preserved in order to build ojas or grow spiritually? Or is it just a vedic superstition? Thank you __________________ . 3~

09-07-2006, 09:42 PM	#6
Mukunda SYTherapy Creator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,068	ojas and spiritual practice There are 3 energies built by spiritual practice -- from vata evolution comes prana; from pitta comes tejas; and from kapha comes ojas. Ojas is a nectar elixir liquid that arises from being in love; loving the divine or your human beloved. It is not necessary to be celibate to build it. Vegetarian diet, healthy human relationships that restrain ejaculation for men but encourage orgasm for women, being kind to others, seeing God within all creation all will enhance these 3 subtle energies. Vedic teachings are often cited as reasons for spiritual practices and evaluating their efficacy. In my experience very few celibates develop ojas; but those in loving relationship who withhold ejaculation do develop ojas. namaste mukunda

09-09-2006, 05:17 AM	#7
gartxott Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 47	Beautiful It is reasonable. Thank you for your help. Namaste __________________ . 3~