What is depression ?

[Crumpled]

Depression, everyone at some point may suffer from it, it is the silent dis-ease, but it is a very bad dis-ease, responsible for so much suffering and sometimes death, but what is it ?

Medics try to explain it saying words along the lines of a chemcal imbalance and so treat it with chemicals that have been noticed to have a positive affect on some people, but the reality with many of these chemicals is that no one really knows what medications will do in the long term, SSRI's for example, there is even suggestion that medics have not a clue about their long term use and may even be found to be harmful.They may even be banned in ten years or so plus.

Me, I am on the SSRI's for mood instability, but I happen to think that as I have always quested the spirit, that depression is less of a chemical imbalance but something more.

My past spirituality, that of pagan, where I recognised the dark goddess, the goddess of rebirth, Hecate as I was aware of her, Kali as it is to others and many many names through history and culture. Now, I understand from what I learned about my spirituality, not following my goddess in her teaching will result in the pits of depression, yep, I have been there, and I still go there sometimes, perhaps even it is the real Christian Hell as the kingdom of heaven can reside within the self.

So now I am as I allow myself to wander through belief structures, I found myself attracted to a book called, '' Zen Therapy- A Buddhist Approach to Psychotherapy '' by David Brazier. Now I am normally sceptical of therapies and treatments, for I have tried many and they work for a while, but are largely fruitless, but I do believe, that depression and assosciated maladies may very well be spiritual in nature, depression might be a loss of spirit or something like that, I have yet to theorise.

The Zen therapy, is holding an appeal, as I suffer greatly with mindfulness, I tend to live in the past or the future, never or perhaps rarely in the present. Now, I had an experience in present living this weekend and found how wonderful it is, meditation on a single purpose, even though I have always had difficulty with meditation, but this time it was very deep and rewarding, it was a Buddhist I had come into contact with, so I now wonder further.

Does anyone here have any inklings on the true nature of depression, or should we really leave that kind of stuff to the experimentation of the medics and psych's ?

[sharala]

Depression may also be both a chemical imbalance and be spiritual in nature. we all get different struggles and diseases according to our samskara ( our reactions from past lives and this life that have to be expressed ).
ofcourse one can first try his best to do without medication. some seek homeopathy and other more natural methods, but who knows what's best if the pain is too great to bear.
to be on a well systematized spiritual path and a Guru can surely help since one starts having more control of one's mind, which is a main issue in mental diseases.
through meditation one is able to have more access to the realm of mind and it's more subtle layers and there change occurs, more control, positive thoughts, looking at the bright side of things, surrender and true love for others.

People with depression and other mental diseases think alot about themselves where their main therapy is to actually think of others and that brings a blissful feeling and hope.

some assanas will be also recommended by teachers who can prescribe assanas for example and other meditation techaniques that can do alot.

I wish you my very best,

Sharala

[David]

I feel that depression is a great thing. It's a signpost pointing to something, and signposts are incredibly useful on this journey we call life. It's whether we resist walking down the path which depression points towards that determines if our experience is "good" or "bad".

[Pandara]

The great Upanishadic seers of realisation have declared that life and the outcome of life for each and every individual is a matter of constant, continuous, moment by moment, choice. It s a matter of choice. What do you choose? What is your wish? That you become!

This great wisdom teachings of Vedanta is very clearly and unambiguously stated in the Kathopanishad. It is also very clearly brought home to us in the Srimad Bhagavad Gita which contains the quintessence of the Upanishadic teachings.

You are what you choose to become. Nothing is forced upon you. Nothing is imposed. You are not compelled. There is no external force in this universe that does it or can do it. All force, all power is within you. You are the source of all force, all power. It is for you to choose how you will express it.

So if you choose depression, then that is what you become, depression therefore is a conscious choice so many choose to make.

I have great compassion for those who truely suffers from a form of depression due to chemical imbalances in their brain chemistry, but they are in the minority. The rest makes a conscious choice.

[Willem]

<<This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all. >>

Rumi (The Guest House).


Depression, meaning a depressive episode (in the clinical sense), is very different from feeling depressed. Depression is not a matter of choice, any more than cancer, appendicitis, etc. It is not a sign of weakness. On the contrary, itt takes great courage to accept and to overcome this condition.

Western medicine does not understand all about depression. Even the serotonine story is debatable. Having said this, the preferred treatment for depression is still a combination of medication and some form of pyschotherapy. So I would encourage someone suffering from depression to follow this approach.

If you are interested in spirituality and meditation, please search out a counselor who shares this interest. This will make communication easier. Some meditation and mindfulness techniques can be incorporated into your treatment. For example, there is a relatively new approach called mindfulness based cognitative therapy. It is a combination of Jon Kabat-Zinn's work and western cognitive psychology. Kabat Zinn's work is strongly based on buddhist meditation. Check out "The Mindful Way through depression" by Williams/Teasdale/Segal and Kabat-Zinn for more information. It is a proven approach, especially for people somewhat in remission.

The route to healing can be helped by yoga techniques, such as asana, pranayama and meditation. Amy Weintraub has written a book about this: "Yoga for depression - a compassionate guide to relieve suffering through yoga".

Blessings.

[David]

Originally Posted by Willem

Even the serotonine story is debatable. Having said this, the preferred treatment for depression is still a combination of medication and some form of pyschotherapy. So I would encourage someone suffering from depression to follow this approach.

You say the serotonin story is debatable and then you prescribe something that usually targets just that. That makes little sense to me. To say that western medicine doesn't fully understand depression is an extreme understatement. If anything, they make the life of the person much worse, the person is just too numbed out by the drugs to realize it. What someone on these drugs tells me, "I feel better" I hear the truth: "I feel less". How anyone can prescribe medication with this VERY SMALL sample of the total list of side effects is beyond me:

• Dry mouth
• Urinary retention
• Blurred vision
• Constipation
• Sedation (can interfere with driving or operating machinery)
• Sleep disruption
• Weight gain
• Headache
• Nausea
• Gastrointestinal disturbance/diarrhea
• Abdominal pain
• Inability to achieve an erection
• Inability to achieve an orgasm (men and women)
• Loss of libido
• Agitation
• Anxiety

And let's not even begin to talk about the withdrawal.

"Let's numb those feelings you're having so that you can avoid facing what those feelings are trying to tell you and harm your body in the process" is what I hear whenever someone prescribes the medicines on the market for depression.

Depression is a GOOD thing. Its your mind, body, and soul trying to tell you that you've been ignoring issues for far too long. Numbing yourself to those feelings only pushes the issues deeper AND you have to then overcome the damage the drugs do which is quite a process in itself.

"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you." Jesus Christ

[core789]

In my mind " depression" is often used as an umbrella term to mean many things.And therefore can be a little nebulous in meaning.


It could cover a Range from lack of a diagnosis, the blues, melancholy,mania,poor serotonin production to tourrettes syndrome or even a sore knee( i.e there cold be a causal link involved )Someone could present a whole host of unexplainable symptoms which is conveninetly piled under this rubric so it absolves the doctor from having to dig too deep, and reach for the proazac, especially with the crying baby in the wating room. Lifestyle factrors might figure like raarely gets out much,lack of excercise, eats too much, eats too little,eats crap, has been grieivng far too long etc orall the above

The yoga approach to illness is to treat the mind-body complex as a whole ,perhaps with ayurveda. It's no suprise that in western medicine there's a dcotro for mind(psychiatry) and one for body(General medicine) given the great schism that exists between mind and body within western medicine ,when in reality they should be treated as inseparable, and that precludes having to adopt esoteric philosphical explanations based on non-duality,or matter and mind are one and the same, and the like.It is simply incredulous that this divide or schsim, in western medicine between mind and body , that they are somehow thought of as independent and must therefore bee treated as such, is never reconciled, properly or at all. It is one of it's greatest shortcomings ,failures and might account for the drugs and/or surgery approach when all else fails

It is sad that this is the best we've got.And it's just not good enough!

Sorry, i just don't buy it!
the diagnosis or the treatment cos the paradigms they are based on are flawed.

My G.P wrote down for me 'nervous deblity', another catch-all but i could havve asily had depression or whatever else down and i realise at the end of the day it does'nt really matter as they are merely labels; they don't mean much.

Western medicine i believe tends to precribe these drugs becuase it is at a loss as to treat much malaise or illness ,at large, and that these drugs ,at best, merely disguise the symtpoms.They allow temporary escapsim for
the individual and the problem perhaps - in fact whatever issues mental physical emotinal spiritual or the whole lot together may become harder to resolve( within the holistic model)cos their capcity for genuine feeling, and therfore healing, has been distorted.


In a sense they are duped.


Depresion could mean practically anything to me,and I suspect others too.
As a label it can carry stigma. But this merely reflects on our limited understanding, and our sense of impotence to do anything about it.


The term is convenient, if somewhat nebulous , whether we broaden the definition or not , say beyond having to be a brain state with certain biochemcial characteristics.

[Techne]

David -- there are counterexamples to your assertion. Yes, the deeper work of life and lifestyle must be done, but medicine is not always counter to that work.
When I heard from my therapist that the only way to directly diagnose low serotonin is a lumbar puncture it helped me see how quickly my doctor prescribed the drug. It did not diminish my gratitude for it or the lessons I learned from observing a mind housed and nourished in a brain that had adequate serotonin.

Crumpled -- this will be up to you (that can be the hard part with depression), but friends and experts can help you. If over the course of a few weeks you decide something isn't helping or is hurting, consult with the folks who thought it would help. If they don't take this new information with the generosity and trust they used with your first assertions of depression, get a second opinion.
And do what works. Don't get lost in the inner maze of thoughts. If in good conscience and good health Hecete shows you your path -- and if that path is love -- stick with it. Love the god that loves you back. Buddhist meditation might become part of your worship (it won't really mind).
Keep in touch!

[justwannabe]

depression can mean
"looking for love in all the wrong places" I have searched a lot in my life for finding an answer to depression. Diet, herbs, self help books, psychologists, religion, etc.... what I can say is this lately I have been sitting still more, just being at peace with the fact that I exist, instead of trying to find this peace, sitting still and letting it come out of me. not struggling against the world and what is has become. Not trying to fix everyone else. depression for me was looking in the wrong places. Jesus was not my answer, a formal meditation was not my answer, food was not my answer, the answer, the acceptance of I am. Then again, everythign I said was not my answer are aspect of my answer, ha ha. Now I am reconnecting to what is, from a different perspective. I am going more with feeling, less with thinking. most of my life thinking clouded out feelings. What is your answer, dont ask me brother, just listen to the stories and see what rings true for you. The good part of depression, a greater sense of compassion when you pull through. Believe that you can, Always Believe.
my best to you
with love
brother neil

[zo_manik]

Originally Posted by justwannabe

depression can mean
Jesus was not my answer, a formal meditation was not my answer, food was not my answer, the answer, the acceptance of I am. Then again, everythign I said was not my answer are aspect of my answer, ha ha. Now I am reconnecting to what is, from a different perspective. I am going more with feeling, less with thinking. most of my life thinking clouded out feelings. What is your answer, dont ask me brother, just listen to the stories and see what rings true for you. The good part of depression, a greater sense of compassion when you pull through. Believe that you can, Always Believe.

yes. Yes. YES! I agree. I can't seem to bring this to practice currently. But I agree. Well stated Neil.

I have been up down, back and forth (hence the 'manik' in my moniker) and

"a different perspective"

is crucial. We think it is the changes we make which will pull us out of depression and all its relative labels, but it is the shift in perspective created during those changes which cause us to pull through.

I need to remember this in my current bleak days, rather than revert back to old mental habits and personal fears.

[ginkgo]

Depression is a lack of happiness. Depression is a mental pain that is telling you that something is wrong. It can be caused by many things including a lack of B vitamins or sunshine.

[oak333]

Baba Ramdev clearly states that Bhastrika and Anulom-Vilom pranayama cure depression.

[shakti-a]

Crumpled-
If you believe, have faith in a practice and stick with it in good times and in bad, success is bound to happen.

I struggled with depression/anxiety for most of my life. Ten years of serious yoga study/meditation has cured me...for good. Joy and contentment have eclipsed darkness.

Skepticism will undoubtedly be present with you in the early stages of your practice, whatever it is you decide to stick with, and will slowly unravel overtime. For me it unraveled in imperceptively subtle degrees over time. One of my yoga teachers responded to the question: how do you know your practice is working? He said: you will begin to notice that your life has changed...for the better. Improved relationships, satisfaction, peace, etc...
If not, it's not working.

If you had a positive experience with the Zen practice, give it a fair chance, say six months. But be steady with your practice. If you wish to overcome depression as your highest priority, practice every day whether you see a change or not instantly. Get over immediate gratification. Measure your overall state of being after six months. If you find improvement, stick with it. If you don't find improvement, consult a master before you give it up. You may have encountered an obstacle.

As I said, I struggled with depression/anxiety most of my life, but I surrendered faithfully and fully to my practice which is based on masterful teachings. I am now cured. Without believing in your method, it can only serve to be self-defeating.

I notice you say you've tried other practices and then slowly they became fruitless. Perhaps you keep hitting the same obstacle and give up. Know thyself. Sometimes we can be our worst enemy. Strengthen your resolves and intentions to be cured of your suffering. Success will soon follow.

Believe that the Goddesses offer you inspiration support and love throughout your journey from darkness to light.

Anna

[oak333]

A mind which is fearless,
Untroubled and calm
No longer struggles.
Buddha-Dhammapada

[yogini_spirit]

what do i do to get myself out of sadness that i'm so used to already?

[SCMT]

Originally Posted by yogini_spirit

what do i do to get myself out of sadness that i'm so used to already?

The first time I used counseling the second time I used mindfulness. I may have been use to it but I sure didn't enjoy it.

[oak333]

A simple point of view.

Depression is the presence of bad thoughts, which discourage you and prevent you from doing things.

Replace the bad thoughts with good thoughts. It is not easy, but it can be done. Just repeat good thoughts like a mantra.

[SCMT]

Depression can also be a result of a chemical imbalance.

[core789]

Originally Posted by yogini_spirit

what do i do to get myself out of sadness that i'm so used to already?

Find another teacher, a good one!

[oak333]

Originally Posted by oak333

A simple point of view.

Depression is the presence of bad thoughts, which discourage you and prevent you from doing things.

Replace the bad thoughts with good thoughts. It is not easy, but it can be done. Just repeat good thoughts like a mantra.

Actually I quoted from the book "The power of your subconscious mind" by Dr. Joseph Murphy.

It is a great book because:

1) the author is great class
2) it is based on the Bible
3) it is a PRACTICAL GUIDE.

[FlexPenguin]

If you think of depression as a broken body part, you may understand the healing process involved. There are different degrees of depression - from feeling blue to total debilitation - much like broken toe to crushed femur. In both cases, it needs to be tended and takes time to heal.

In some cases it is like multiple fractures where you must be hospitalized. In any case, only professional help and time to heal will cure depression. There are many therapies you can take in the meantime to speed up healing - medications, yoga, meditation, etc., but left ignored it can fester and become a serious risk to you.

[Light_Of_Life]

Depression in yoga is usually considered to be a byproduct of the disposition known as tamasic. A tamasic state is one in which dullness, lethargy, and laziness are dominant. This usually is caused by an over active ida nadi which is one of the two central nadi channels within the body.

The solution, from this view point, is to practice dynamic yoga asanas that stimulate the body. Also purification practices that help to increase prana in the body, like pranayama, can help to stimulate the pingala nadi and regenerate energy within the mind and body.