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Old 04-12-2012, 06:45 PM   #1
Surya Deva
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Is Puranic Hinduism the most stupidest religion in the world?

This is a sequel to my popular and controversial thread, "Is the OT the most primitive and barbaric scripture in the world" I remember how Christians were very offended by this thread and how Hindus were relishing it! Now, I am going to turn the tables on the Hindus

For people who have not been following my thread, "I am no longer Hindu" Puranic Hinduism refers to the very popular Hinduism practiced by most Hindus. It is in direct contrast to the philosophical and spiritual Hinduism that many of us in the West are acquainted with through giants like Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Ramanana Maharishi et al.

Puranic Hinduism emerged much later than Vedic Hinduism after the common era. Prior to that Vedic Hinduism consisted of two phases:

Early Vedic ritualism: Mimassa

This was the early ritualistic phase of the Vedic age and consisted of exoteric rituals like fire sacrifices to natural principles personified(Varuna, Agni, Indra) where people would congregate around a ritual fire and chant the mantras from the Vedas(Samhita portion) while making offerings of food into the fire. There were various types of fire sacrifices: Ashvamedha(horse sacrifice), Ajamedha(goat sacrifice), Gomedha(cow sacrifice). The main texts of this period were the Brahmanas.

It is a controversial subject whether animals were sacrificed at all and is based on which translation of the Vedas you consult.

Later Vedic philosophical period: Vedanta

This was the philosophical and spiritual period of the Vedic age and bought an end to the ritual phase(hence it is known as Vedanta, meaning at the end of the Vedas) The sages of India challenged and mocked the rituals of the ritual phase, and emphasized the knowledge of the Vedas, explaining it in the Upanishads. Here all the major doctrines of Hinduism were formulated: Brahman, Atman, Karma, Samsara, Yoga. They were then logically and rationally presented by the Darsanas: Samkhya, Yoga, Vedanta, Vaiseshika, Nyaya. This period lasted up until the common era.

The philosophical and spiritual period marked a peak in Indian intellectual and scientific culture. The Upanishads were written, the epics Mahabharata and Ramayana were composed, the grammar of Sanskrit was standardized, major treatises on drama and poetry were created. The first scientific and complete system of medicine was invented: Ayurveda. The first universities and hospitals were built. The first planned cities with sanitation were created. The six schools of philosophy emerged. Buddhism and Jainism emerged.

Then came the Puranic age and India's intellectual culture severely suffered.

The idea of philosophical Hinduism that captured the imagination of Indian people was the idea of Brahman(Hindu concept of god) And they started to make various images of this god, by deifying literally people by giving them the status of an avatar(Like Krishna, Rama) and personality sects formed like Vaishnavism, Shivaism, Shaktism.
Scriptures were composed called the Puranas by each sect for their deities, containing myths and legends, moral codes for the common folk. In this way massive fragmentation took place with hundreds of different sects mushrooming. Later, temples were built everywhere dedicated to their respective sects. It is also during this period the caste system was forged and enforced.

It is interesting to note that as soon as the idea of god is given to the masses they immediately start making images. Incidentally, it is during this Puranic phase of Hinduism that India was ravaged by invasions. Invasions had happened before the common era as well, such as the Greeks and Persians, but India was organized and strong enough to repulse them. Now, India was highly fragmented, and soon fell prey to various invasions from the Huns, the Arabs, the Portuguese, the Dutch, the French, the English.

Like Christianity bought about a dark age for Europe. Puranic Hinduism bought a dark age for the Indian subcontinent. Now let us literally look at why Puranic Hinduism is the most stupidest religion in the world:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl3RH...eature=related
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:20 PM   #2
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyWeS...feature=relmfu

Fast forward to: 0:20 min

The video is a common Hindu festival called a Jagrata celebrated monthly to the goddess Durga/Kali - where Hindus stay awake all night dancing, clapping and singing(often being sung by a singer) devotional hymns, which are usually popular Bollywood tracks with religious lyrics superimposed on them!!

Pray/tell, how on earth is this going to help somebody develop spiritually? It's just an excuse to have a party and dance I described in the other thread how I attended one of these festivals in India, where I saw some of the most superstitious behaviour - a woman pretending to be possessed by the goddess and doing a dance of destruction while holding her baby, violently whirling around and bumping into everybody. A little boy dressed as the elephant god Ganesha brought in ritually sitting on a man dressed in a lion suit, and people thronging at the feet of the little boy to get his blessings!

What I see are a bunch of idiots.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:39 PM   #3
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You really should be ashamed of yourself, and if you're not now, you will be.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:36 AM   #4
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I really hope Asuri that your shift from Hindu hater and racist to a Hindu well wisher stays
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:14 AM   #5
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Now people may be thinking why don't I just live and let live - if Hindus want to worship rats, elephants, snakes, cows, rave about like lunatics in worship of gods and goddesses - why not let them? Well, for the same reason that the OT and its practices should be not allowed in the 21st century: they are primitive, they belong to an outdated age. We cannot move ahead into the future, if we have one foot in the future and one foot in the past.

Puranic Hinduism served a time when people lacked scientific understanding of the laws of nature. The so-called 'god experience' that people had were interpreted in the ways society could understand then, as gods and goddesses and god was rendered in the image of these early people. In the same way the god of the OT was rendered as vengeful in the image of the early jews. Thus in this time because of the low understanding, temple worship, animal sacrifices and other such primitive rituals flourished.

Today, we have a much greater understanding of human psychology and physiology to scientifically interpret what is really happening. It, turns out, these god, mystical and transcendent experiences are the results of the energy in the nervous system circulating in a certain way; of higher states of consciousness and brainwave activity. We also understand, how these states can be induced through breathing exercises, meditation, biofeedback and direct manipulation of the brain with chemicals or magnetic fields.

We now understand what the early primitive humans understand as god, as a human potential or the result of the human functioning at peak performance using higher percentage of their brain and having a much more healthy nervous system. Something we know that the Yogis understood a long time ago, but today we have hard empirical evidence to fortify their conclusions and have far better technologies to enhance Yoga.

In the same way we have done away with the old ideas and customs that were prevalent in the times of the primitive like creationism, geocentric models of the Earth, we need to do away with the ideas of gods and goddesses and the associated low rituals like temple worship. It is time to grow up and become spiritual.

Hindus are indeed their worst enemy because they refuse to let go of their stubborn and dead traditions, customs and practices. Not realizing that these traditions put them at loggerheads with the rest of the world and the modern age. One of the strongest criticisms of Christians and Muslims of Hinduism is the idol worship and superstition. As these practices are not essential to Hinduism, Hindu should not even bat an eye lid in abandoning them. Such reforms are absolutely necessary if Hindus want to be taken seriously in a 21st century world.

Now reforms have indeed happened within Hinduism by Swami Vivekananda et al who have emphasized that Hindus bring focus on the spiritual and philosophical aspect of Hinduism in the Vedanta period. This is very relevant in the scientific age. Indeed it is this aspect that modern scientists and philosophers welcome the most. Unfortunately, this reformed Hinduism has not really percolated in India, as much as it has in the West, bringing about in the West the spirituality movement.

Hindus must now be thinking universally and globally and this also means acknowledging the spiritual traditions around the world(Gnosticism, Sufism, Wicca and modern new thought and trans personal psychology) They must not be so narrow minded and insist that it be called "Hinduism" but identify with the larger global spirituality - the real Santana dharma. Get involved in it, Contribute to it, Enhance it, Enrichen it. The Hindu vision should be to spiritualize the entire world as the Risis wanted, as Swami Vivekananda and Aurobindo wanted - not to preserve dead traditions. Dead people preserve dead traditions.

Hindus are very very relevant today in the modern world but not because they are a cheap source of labour to outsource to, but because they have a great inheritance of spirituality which the world needs today. Hindus need to recognize their inheritance and take leadership and responsibility in sharing this inheritance with the rest of the world. Many good Hindus are doing this today, but most Hindus are not. This needs to change.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:34 PM   #6
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if Hindus want to worship rats, elephants, snakes, cows, rave about like lunatics in worship of gods and goddesses - why not let them? Well, for the same reason that the OT and its practices should be not allowed in the 21st century.
So said the Taliban of spirituality.

Surya Deva is a very dangerous person indeed, he is speaking like a terrorist when he says that the worship of nature and pagan gods should not be allowed. Surya Deva has the same mentality of the people who destroyed the library of Alexandria and Nalanda, the Buddhas statues in Afghanisthan and demolished Hindu temples while murdering their worshippers.

Quote:
One of the strongest criticisms of Christians and Muslims of Hinduism is the idol worship and superstition. As these practices are not essential to Hinduism, Hindu should not even bat an eye lid in abandoning them. Such reforms are absolutely necessary if Hindus want to be taken seriously in a 21st century world.
Hindus could care less what Christians and Muslims say about Hinduism. Religion and spirituality for Surya Deva is nothing more than approval seeking behavior.

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Hindus must now be thinking universally and globally and this also means acknowledging the spiritual traditions around the world(Gnosticism, Sufism, Wicca and modern new thought and trans personal psychology) They must not be so narrow minded and insist that it be called "Hinduism" but identify with the larger global spirituality - the real Santana dharma. Get involved in it, Contribute to it, Enhance it, Enrichen it.
This betrays how desparate Surya Deva is to extort knowledge from Hinduism. He cannot even follow a different spiritual path as long as Hindus don't contribute to it. The problem is that Surya Deva has absolutely no respect and humility and therefore no honest guru, not even reformist ones, would ever accept him. He also betrays his envy to people who are capable of identifying themself with the Hindu religion.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:56 PM   #7
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Surya Deva, for someone who was a Hindu militant, you came to very opposite of things.

You should not be symbolic blind, you may personally consider the worship of Gods immature but that does not mean it's not a valid spiritual path, a way to connect with numinous energies (beyond rationalization).

Horses for courses, and Hinduism offers many different paths for many different mindsets.

And you should not impose your worldview onto other people. If these religious practices are still active, it's because people still sincerely live them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya Deva View Post
Today, we have a much greater understanding of human psychology and physiology to scientifically interpret what is really happening. It, turns out, these god, mystical and transcendent experiences are the results of the energy in the nervous system circulating in a certain way; of higher states of consciousness and brainwave activity. We also understand, how these states can be induced through breathing exercises, meditation, biofeedback and direct manipulation of the brain with chemicals or magnetic fields.

We now understand what the early primitive humans understand as god, as a human potential or the result of the human functioning at peak performance using higher percentage of their brain and having a much more healthy nervous system. Something we know that the Yogis understood a long time ago, but today we have hard empirical evidence to fortify their conclusions and have far better technologies to enhance Yoga.
‎"Once you go from interior to exterior, from mind to brain, from compassion to seretonin, you go from value to valueless, from virtue to virtueless, from worth to worthless. All of that is lost, denied, erased from the shiny monochrome world that you now triumphantly inhabit. And once you have carefully scrubbed the cosmos clean of consciousness and virtue and meaning, you should not be surprised if your own lifeworld starts to look completely hollow and empty." - Ken Wilber

You should be careful with these ideals of science as salvation to mankind. Science is just a modern myth. One that brought about many caveats that we're living in this very moment.

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Originally Posted by Surya Deva View Post
I really hope Asuri that your shift from Hindu hater and racist to a Hindu well wisher stays
I guess the opposite could be said of you, no?
Don't take it as an offense, just an observation of your change of views.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:46 AM   #8
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Well, the Hindu reaction does not surprise me I think you will now understand a year ago when you were arguing against the Abrahamic religions and the OT the Christian reaction was also one of defiance. Now you know what it feels like when the tables are turned on you

Again many are wondering why don't I just let people live and let live. It is highly unlikely I am going to stop any Hindus on this forum from worshiping their gods, abandon Krishna and Shiva, abandon their idol worship and their ancient traditions. I know that, and I accept that, but does not mean I cannot voice my opinion against it. I will let my reasons be known why I think this is a practice that has passed its sell by date. Why it puts Hindus at loggerheads with the rest of the world. Why these practices are counter-productive to India.

Why have these practices passed its sell by date? Idol worship is a very ancient and primitive practice that goes back to stoneage times. When humans first saw natural phenomena like fire, thunder and lightening, sun, moon they deified it and interpreted them as various gods: fire god, thunder and lightening god, sun god, moon god, rain god. They than begin to worship these gods with rituals to please them and gain favours from them, believing their rituals to have effects on them. They may do a ritual to the rain god for example and when rain come see that as the god being pleased. Early Vedic religion was just like this. Nature was personified as various gods(Surya, Indra, Agni etc) and worshiped through fire rituals and Soma rituals. In fact all primitive religions on the planet were originally naturalistic and polytheistic.

As humans evolved more we see a shift from polytheism to monotheism in religions around the world. It is seen in the OT how later books the plurality of gods(Elohim) is replaced by a single all-powerful god(god of all gods)

Likewise, in the Vedas we see in later books, a shift from many gods to the ONE, the supreme god of all gods. In this phase rituals become more sophisticated because they are more focused and addressed to a single all powerful god. Rituals like prayer and temple worship.

Later, we find as humans evolve more they make another shift from monotheism to mysticism. This we find very clear at the end of the ritual phase of the Vedas and the appearance of Vedanta. The ONE is now recognized as ultimate reality, all pervading spirit, existence: Brahman. As the human is included within this, it is not surprising how the Vedanta philosophers conclude the identity of ones self Atman with Brahman: leading to the proclamation: Aham Brahmasmi, Atyam Atma Brahma, Tat Tvam Asi. Rituals become even more sophisticated: meditation, self-inquiry, contemplation, yoga

The same is seen in other religious traditions in the world. In the European Pagan religion we see a shift to Neo-Platonism and Gnoticism. Affirming similar conclusions: The identity of the human self with god, "The kingdom of god is within, know thyself. Similar practices to meditation, self-inquiry, contemplation also are found.

Later, as humans evolve even more they make another shift from mysticism to science. This we find appear in the scientific age when humans start to examine nature, analyse it and understand the laws of nature. Mystical explanations are replaced with scientific explanations. For example Aristotle's explanation of the divine will for objects to fall is replaced by a scientific explanation: the law of gravitation. Explanations like demonic possession are replaced with scientific explanations like schizophrenia. Alchemy by Chemistry; Astrology by Astronomy.

The scientific age is still very much in its infancy, especially psychological science, but we have discovered a lot so far that has enabled to develop much greater understanding of mind and behaviour: mental states, habits, associations, and their correspondences to physical states: physiological and neural states. Now using modern scientific techniques like mental phenomenology and MRI scanning we have been able to identify the physical configurations that elicit mystical experiences, and can induce them in subjects by creating those configurations using chemical, magnetic, electrical or physical means. With this more sophisticated rituals have evolved in the form of scientific technologies: hemi-synch or brain entrainment, biofeedback, sensory deprivation tanks, scientific remote viewing and using magnetic and electric fields. In the future better technologies may emerge like neural engineering or microchips to produce these states instantly.

We are now heading into a space age, an interstellar civilization by the 22nd or 23rd century. It is inevitable that all religions will die out by the end of this century - they have passed their sell by date. They are no longer needed. What will flourish on this planet is not religion but spirituality. We will move from secular humanism today to spiritual humanism tomorrow. It is a brilliant time for humanity. So why resist it? Let it happen, sooner rather than later. Idol worship of gods and goddesses has absolutely no place in the 21st century.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:11 AM   #9
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I will now cover why Puranic Hindu practices put Hindus at loggerheads with the world.

There is a reality about the world we are living in today, that nobody can deny: It is global village. Due to science and technology national boundaries have been transcended and information now travels from nation to nation instantly, exerting influence on one another. A great example is how Hollywood, MTV and football have become global phenomena today, people in distant and foreign nations like China are watching the latest Hollywood blockbusters. MTV is everywhere and the youth from all parts of the world are growing up with MTV and MTV-like culture. On the whole, it seems like Western culture is spreading all over the world.

But of course this process is far more complicated than that. The traditional Western hegemonic explanation of the West culturally dominating the entire world is not actually true, or overstates the truth. The truth is that we call Western culture today is a hybrid of cultural streams from all over the world. In Britain today curry is the national food, but that certainly is not the traditional food of Britain! In other words globalization is not Westernization, it is an ongoing process of cultural streams from all around the world interacting with one another and synthesizing.

How is this relevant to religion? It is very relevant, because religion is a type of cultural stream and religions are interacting with one another today and affecting one another. In the late 19th and early 20th century Hinduism was interacting with the cultural stream of Christianity and what resulted was major reform movements starting in Hinduism by Vivekananda et al. But the process was not one way: Hinduism began to influence Christianity back in the West. Remember my thread, "America will become Hindu by the end of the century" America an 80% Christian nation is now the biggest sponsor of Yoga in the world, with approx 30 million Americans practicing it. Many Christians now believe in karma reincarnation, avatarship of Jesus Christ, god as consciousness or self and and now Hindu style contemplative meditation is practiced in many Churches in America.

In our globalized world a new global religion is emerging and the authorities of various religions in the world are not unaware of it, but are addressing it by holding regular inter-religious dialogues and forums around the world. Even Muslims, probably the most intolerant religion are doing it. These inter-religious dialogues are bringing religions together on there similarities, rather than concentrating on their differences. This global religion is actually what we today call 'global spirituality' It is based on not just one religious stream, but a hybrid of many. It is working itself out as we speak and spreading rapidly around the world.

It is impossible for Hinduism to remain outside of this process. Not even Christianity and Islam have been able to. Hinduism cannot survive as an isolated Indian tradition today. It is simply to absurd to insist on its ancient traditions, customs and wasy. It is not compatible with the cultural streams of Christianity and Islam, which are major cultural streams, and it will produce friction, conflict and wars.

The argument of Christianity and Islam is valid: If there cannot be an image of god, then why make images of god and trivialize god? It is the Vedas themselves which state that god is beyond images, descriptions and concepts: Nirguna Brahman. It is the Vedas themselves which state that god is formless, absolute, existence, consciousness and and bliss. So why Hindus feel the need to make and imagine so many images?This idol worship has produced conflict not only just with Abrahamic religions(who murdered many Hindus for this) but conflict with other Indian religions like Buddhism and Sikhism. As well as Hindu reformers themselves of the 20th century. So why are Hindus being so pig headedly stubborn? When this practice of idol worship of gods and goddesses is not essential and it is producing so much conflict, isn't it simply just prudence to discard it?
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:16 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Pietro Impagliazzo View Post
Surya Deva, for someone who was a Hindu militant, you came to very opposite of things.
I was never a Hindu nationalist. Since, coming on this forum I have always identified myself as spiritual and humanist. In the times you knew me I even started a thread called "Hindutva" were I showed my strong rejection of Hindu nationalism/

Quote:
You should not be symbolic blind, you may personally consider the worship of Gods immature but that does not mean it's not a valid spiritual path, a way to connect with numinous energies (beyond rationalization).
One is not connecting with anything, other than ones imagination. This 'path' is a sure-fire way of inducing hallucination. I have seen it first-hand in India how people on his 'path' induce their own psychosis by pretending to be possessed by the spirit, the divine mother.

Quote:
Horses for courses, and Hinduism offers many different paths for many different mindsets.
There are not many paths, the idea of many path is a modern idea that was first introduced in the Gita and then further elaborated in modern times by Vivekananda creating the popular idea of the 4 yogas:

Jnana Yoga
Karma Yoga
Bhakti Yoga
Raja Yoga

In the Vedic times there was no such idea of many paths. There is even a verse in the Upanishads which declares, "This is the only way" The Upanishads advocate knowing Brahman, meditating on Brahman, contemplating on Brahman. At the same time some of them prescribe Yoga practices as necessary purification practices to realize Brahman.

Quote:
And you should not impose your worldview onto other people. If these religious practices are still active, it's because people still sincerely live them.
This is the fallacy of appeal to tradition. Just because a large number of people continue to do something, does not tell us anything about the validity and efficacy of the practice. Millions of Hindu people today still bathe in the toxic waters of the River Ganga, in which people urinate, defecate, put dead bodies in to rot and clean their dirty clothes on. Millions of these Hindus are sincerely living the practice of ritually bathing in the Ganga, but that does not change the fact that the waters are actually highly toxic and it is highly unhealthy to bathe in them.

Quote:
‎"Once you go from interior to exterior, from mind to brain, from compassion to seretonin, you go from value to valueless, from virtue to virtueless, from worth to worthless. All of that is lost, denied, erased from the shiny monochrome world that you now triumphantly inhabit. And once you have carefully scrubbed the cosmos clean of consciousness and virtue and meaning, you should not be surprised if your own lifeworld starts to look completely hollow and empty." - Ken Wilber

You should be careful with these ideals of science as salvation to mankind. Science is just a modern myth. One that brought about many caveats that we're living in this very moment.
You are taking Wilbers quote out of context. Wilber is criticizing here materialism, not science. In materialism mind is reduced to brain and compassion to serotonin.

Science is obviously not a myth, for if it was a myth you would not be writing to me it is a myth on your computer made out of transistors and microchips, running on electricity generated by power houses, transmitting signals across the word on the internet through space satellites.

Has science brought us salvation? No, but neither has religion. What science and scientific thinking has brought us though is far better living conditions than we've ever had before. Higher life spans, better technology, comforts and luxuries for masses, civil, human and women rights, health care. Humans have never had it so good.


Quote:
I guess the opposite could be said of you, no?
Don't take it as an offense, just an observation of your change of views.
See "The myth of Surya Devas sudden change of views"
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:09 AM   #11
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I will now present several cases for why Puranic Hinduism is truly the most stupidest religion in the world.

Bathing in toxic water believing it to be sacred

Everyday 60,000 Hindus take a holy dip in the river Ganges, believing the river to be sacred and having the power to cleanse them of their sins and purify them. If this was true then everyday 60,000 Hindus would become saints and sages. It is obvious then that the waters do not contain any magical power to cleanse one of sins. But, it does indeed contain a power of another kind, the power of toxicity and germs:

The waters of the River Ganga contains 10,000 times more disease-causing microrganisms than the standard limit. Everyday, about 100 Olympic size swimming pools worth of sewage is dumped into the river.

Millions of Hindus bath, swim, drink and do their laundry in the river they call "sacred":



The sewage in the Ganges poisons and pollutes the water in villages downstream from the Ganga. 400,000 Indian children under the age of 5 die every year from water-born diseases.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/WN/popup?id=4574910

Read more horrifying facts about the "sacred" Ganga: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people...tml?c=y&page=4

Some excerpts:

A few yards upstream, we follow a foul odor to a violent flow of untreated domestic sewage gushing into the river from an old brick pipe. The bubbling torrent is full of fecal microorganisms responsible for typhoid, cholera and amoebic dysentery. Ten million to 12 million gallons of raw sewage have been pouring out of this drainpipe each day, Jaiswal tells me, since the main sewer line leading to the treatment plant in Kanpur became clogged—five years ago. "We've been protesting against this, and begging the [Uttar Pradesh state] government to take action, but they've done nothing," he says.



One stretch of the Yamuna River, the Ganges' main tributary, has been devoid of all aquatic creatures for a decade. In Varanasi, India's most sacred city, the coliform bacterial count is at least 3,000 times higher than the standard established as safe by the United Nations World Health Organization, according to Veer Bhadra Mishra, an engineer and Hindu priest who's led a campaign there to clean the river for two decades. "Polluted river water is the biggest cause of skin problems, disabilities and high infant mortality rates," says Suresh Babu, deputy coordinator of the River Pollution Campaign at the Center for Science and the Environment, a watchdog group in New Delhi, India's capital. These health problems are compounded by the fact that many Hindus refuse to accept that Mother Ganga has become a source of illness. "People have so much faith in this water that when they bathe in it or sip it, they believe it is the nectar of God [and] they will go to heaven," says Ramesh Chandra Trivedi, a scientist at the Central Pollution Control Board, the monitoring arm of India's Ministry of the Environment and Forests.

Meanwhile, the city's population keeps growing—it has doubled to three million in a generation—along with the bacteria count. Mishra says he's especially concerned for the future of India's most devout Hindus, whose lives are entirely focused on Mother Ganga. He calls them an endangered species. "They want to touch the water, rub their bodies in the water, sip the water," he says, "and someday they will die because of it," admitting that he himself takes a dip in the river every morning. "If you tell them 'the Ganga is polluted,' they say, 'we don't want to hear that.' But if you take them to the places where open sewers are giving the river the night soil of the whole city, they say, 'this is disrespect done to our mother, and it must be stopped.'"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed, this is the reality I also saw in India. When me and my Indian family went to Haridwar my family plunged into the river for a holy hip, we saw thousands of people jumping into the waters, drinking it, bathing in it. I was the only one who refused to bathe in it, stating, "Sorry, but this water is highly toxic and I do not want to endanger my health" my family laughed it off by saying, "Stop worrying, this is mother goddess Ganga, it is impossible for her to become toxic" And herein we can see why Puranic Hindus are the stupidest people in the world. Despite knowing that the river is actually toxic and can affect them with all kinds of disease, they knowing plunge themselves into and drink from it. This kind of stupidity is unparalleled in any religion.


Puranic Hinduism renders people highly stupid by encouraging blind faith and superstition in people. Making them worship imaginary gods and goddesses, rocks, snakes, elephants, rats, monkeys, trees, rivers, people. Making them believe in myths and legends as history.

60,000 Hindus who are taking dips in the Ganga everyday are complete and utter idiots.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:39 AM   #12
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Yes, I am amazed at how many people are so willing to bathe and drink in toxic waters. I can only begin to imagine the various bacteria/toxic matter that is contained in the Ganges. For health reasons I wouldn't jump into it either. The youtube video with the rat temple and people worshipping the rats only shows how easily they are misled. But, misleading people is nothing new when it comes to various religions.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:40 AM   #13
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Thanks for your comment Juniper. I am glad that somebody else in this thread has actually been bold enough to come out and say it as it is: What we are seeing here is sheer idiocy and this is unbelievably the religion of millions of Hindus today. They prefer to emphasize this primitive and stuipid aspect of their relgion and be mocked and laughed at by the rest of the world, than to emphasize their enlightened philosophical tradition which is globally appreciated. This is why millions of disenchanted Hindu youth are turning away in droves from Hinduism, but they end up also throwing out the baby with the bathwater(because most of them do not even know about this enlightened philosophical tradition, all they are use to seeing is the superstition, idol worship and bizarre rituals and mythology). It is due to religious Hindu fanatics like Sarvamangalamanala who actually want to preserve these stupid traditions out of a sense of national pride, that more modern and progressive Hindus struggle to bring reform into their religion.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:58 PM   #14
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Puranic Astronomy and Cosmology

My second case for why Puranic Hinduism is truly the most stupidest religion in the world and Puranic Hindu the stupidest among people. If showing the rat worship and eating the left over of rats thinking of it as blessed food, and bathing in toxic water thinking it to be sacred was not enough to conclude it is the stupidest religion, then after seeing the following, no doubt will remain on the matter.

We will look at parts of a documentary authored by the Hare Krishna group, which is a branch of Puranic Hinduism known as Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Vaishnavism is the biggest sect of Puranic Hinduism and 80% of Hindus are Vaishnavas. The documentary attempts to prove the Puranic model of astronomy and cosmology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnoer...eature=related

Warning: Watching the following documentary may lead to severe loss of brain cells!

Overview of the documentary:

0-5 min: Setting up the presentation for how the Puranic model of astronomy and cosmology is going to to revolutionize our understanding and challenge the current scientific model(Just wait to see what that amazing advanced knowledge is!)

5-10 min: Citing various eminent Western scientists like Carl Sagan etc to show how they much they were impressed with Hindu astronomy. (Actually, they are misquoted, because they never in a lifetime of Brahma support what this documentary is about to present)

11 min: Presenting the advanced Puranic model:

The universe is a sphere encased by successive coverings of the elements earth, air, fire, water earth, ether, intelligence and ego. As a coconut has its hard outer shell, and inner liquid, so the universe has its outer coverings and an inner space half-filled with ocean water(!) In that expanse of ocean Lord Vishnu lies reclined on his serpent bed, while being massaged by his consort Lakshmi

Then an account of creation is given:

From his navel arose a lotus from which Brahma is born. Initially the universe was pitch black and Brahma engaged in meditation. Then he was empowered to create the universe

The commentator adds

This account of creation may seem fantastic to some, but then modern scientific explanations also require fantastic leaps of faith to explain the origin of the universe" Then a quote by Stephen Hawking is given to justify believing in this fantastic Puranic account

12:25: Now the Puranic astronomical model is explained:

Vedic(actually Puranic) cosmology explains that the universe is made up of 14 vertically arranged planetary systems or lokas, each system resembles a galaxy and comprises stars, planets and other celestial bodies. The top most planetary system is Satya loka, the abode of Brahma, situated at 1.87 billion miles above Earth. Below this is the Tapoloka planetary system, which is at a height of nearly 1 billion miles above the Earth. Here the ascetics live in a solitary serene environment conducive for Yoga and meditation on transcendence. Their disciplines life of joyous austerity prepares them for returning to the non-material world

13:40: Now the Puranic explanation is given for motion of planets!

The explanation of the founder of the Hare Krishna group Prabhupada is cited(as given in the Puranas)

We can see that at night how the whole planetary system is revolving around, the pole star being the pivot. Each planet has its orbit fixed, but the sun is moving up and down, north and south, it is not that we shall expect the theory that the sun is fixed and other are all going around the sun. That is not correct(!)

So what is correct?

The entire planetary system is hanging from the pole star like a chandelier according to the Puranas!

15:30:

The Matsya Purana explains: The planets and the stars are all attached to the pole star by invisible astral cords. The revolution of the pole star causes the orbital motion of other planets and stars. Though meditation the Yogic astronomers visualize the planets and stars as different parts of Shishuma, the transcendental dolphin(!)

16:00: More about the pole star

The pole star, the top most of the heavenly planets is like the capital of the middle universe. Here the third form of Vishnu(lying on his serpent bed and massaged by his consort Lakshmi) resides on an ocean of milk(!) In times of universal disturbances, the demigods headed by Brahma come here to ask for help(!) The pole star is also the abode of Dhruva, a pure and exalted devotee of the lord

16:30: Now the scientific model of the heliocentric solar system is examined and again various eminent scientists are cited(including Einstein) to support their conclusion it is unproven(so their model is good as any!)

Although the heliocentric model has been widely propagated, it has never been proven

If you have not been baffled by the sheer stupidity of the Puranic model, it is about to get even more stupid:

18:40: Now information about the sun is given and how it works and it is powered. Did you think nuclear fusion powered the sun?

Do you know what energy runs the sun? Is it nuclear fusion? Volcanic energy? No. No it is water, yes water. The sun evaporates water from all over creation and uses it as fuel, just as lightening uses moisture.

21:00: Now the sun's actual nature is described. Brace yourself!

Ordinary vision sees the sun as a global of fire. However, celestial vision reveals a a personality presiding over the sun. His name is Vivisan, and he rides a golden chariot pulled by seven divine horses(!!!!) travelling at 16,000 miles per second

24:10: Now the distances of the planets and star are given from Earth according to the central Purana of Vaishnavism Srimad Bhagvatam in terms of vertical distance.

The sun is 0.8 million miles from the Earth
The moon is 1.6 million miles
The stars are twice the distance(3.2 million miles) of the moon
Then Mercury
Then Venus
Then Mars
Then Saturn
Then Jupiter
Then Ursa Major
Then the pole star at 30 million miles

These are of course all wrong distances and its obvious the moon is closer to the Earth than the sun!(The sun is 91 million miles) The stars are further than the sun and the planets.

It will not get even more ridiculous!

25:05: Now a Puranic explanation is given for solar and lunar eclipses. It happens because of an invisible dark planet called Rahu(a demon) 80,000 miles below the sun which comes in between the sun, moon and earth!

26:00 Now loads of propoganda is presented by Hindu swamis, pandits on how the scientific model is a myth(notice another Hindu fanatic described science as a myth earlier) and how it keeps changing its conclusions(a common fallacy used by religionists to undermine all discoveries of science and stick to the accounts in their religion)

Modern science is only a few centuries old, where our Vedic cosmology is many thousands of years old, so the modern science cannot suddenly be a base for our Vedic cosmology

Now let us look at geography presented in the Puranas, which is equally staggeringly stupid:

38:00:

In the centre of Jamvudvipa(India) stands the most extraordinary divine golden mountain called Meru. Meru is shaped like an inverted cone and is the supporting place for the demigods. Jamvudvipa is 0.8 million miles in diameter and is surrounded by a saltwater ocean of the same width. On top of Meru is a resort of Brahma. The famous celestial river of Ganga descends to the centre and then flows it in all four directions(to the earth) Surrounding this resort are the cities of the demi gods, one of these cities is the city of king Indra, the king of heavens. King Indra lives here in majestic opulence attended to by musicians, artists, dancers and reciters.

39:40: Now the great earthly plantary system(bhumandala) is described(brace yourself again!)

The earthly planetary system extends out to the edges of the universe and has a diameter of 4 billion miles. Known as bhumandala and shaped like a lotus flower, it has seven concentric islands and oceans, with mouth Meru at its centre. The seven oceans respectively contain: salt water, juice, liquor, clarified butter, milk, yoghurt and sweet water....... 4 elephants of inestimable size are placed at the corner of each direction to balance the greater earth!

41:20: Now the hells below the earth are described!

Below the earthly planetary system are 7 subterranean realms which do not receive sun light and are inhabited primarily by demonic living entities. To reach the first one, one must go 80,000 miles downwards through underground tunnels. At success depths of 80,000 miles are the remaining 6 netherworlds all of which are highly developed underground civilizations. At the fourth level exists the magical architect Maya Dananva, who has designed many well developed cities where proud materialists reside....... Below the nether words are the 28 hellish planetary systems. The demigod of justice Yama raj jugdges unrighteous souls after their death, and sends their souls to one of these places to receive punitive action according to their deeds.

42:40: If it was not ridiculous enough already, it is described how the entire earthly planetary system is resting on the top of the hood of a giant divine serpent being called Shesha, who in turn is resting on a colossal tortoise Kuma floating in the ocean!

The remaining few minutes of the documentary is more propoganda on how revolutionary this science is and how we must build a Vedic planetarioum to rival the one of modern science.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Einstein said "Human stupidity is infinite" and we have seen the infinite stupidity of Puranic Hinduism in this documentary. In this documentary we have Hindus living in a modern age actually trying to prove that this Puranic model of astronomy and cosmology is correct and should be preserved and propogated. Telling us with a straight face and with a spirit of defiance against modern science the following(summarizing the inanities we just witnessed)

1. The Earth is a flat-disk like shape extending 4 billion miles, pinned down by four elephants gigantic size at each corner, resting on the head of a divine snake, who in turn is testing on a giant tortoise!

2. The universe is vertically arranged. The Subterranean worlds where demons live, followed by the sun, then the moon, then the stars, then the planets and finally the pole star. Then the heavens begin!

3. The earth is fixed and the sun, planets, stars all go around the Earth attached by invisible strings to a rotating pole star.

4. The sun is actually powered by water!!(I was told this by a Hindu scholar in India, that if it we did not perform the rite of giving water to the sun, the sun will stop burning) that evaporates from the Earth.
The sun is actually really a divine person who rides a divine chariot driven by 7 divine horses!

I think enough has been demonstrated here to show how unbelievable stupid the Puranas and Puranic Hindus are. It is understandable why pre-modern Indian people followed them, but why would somebody in a 21st century modern world follow such unadulterated garbage, if they were not an idiot themselves?
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:42 PM   #15
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Ha,ha, ha, that's so funny! "Warning: watching the following documentary may lead to severe loss of brain cells!" Yes, you are correct in demonstrating how idiotic the Puranas and Puranic Hinduism is. Perhaps some will stop and take a deeper look at the nonsense and garbage they have/are following.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Perhaps some will stop and take a deeper look at the nonsense and garbage they have/are following.
And there is a lot of garbage to discard. Practically 90% of what is considered Hinduism would have to be discarded. As 90% of what is Hinduism today with its pantheon of gods and goddesses, rituals and traditions, and legends and myths all come from the Puranas. This includes the notion of avatars, the stories of Krishna, Shiva, Hanuman and Durga/Kali. All of it will have to be binned. Together they all constitute the stupid aspect of Hinduism. None of it has any significance in the 21st century.

The remaining 10% has a lot of significance though. The philosophy of Hinduism is highly relevant: Namely Vedanta and Yoga. These are two gems which are the unique contribution of Indian civilization to humanity: They are the first serious studies into the question of human suffering, human nature and how to solve human suffering and realize the highest potentials of human nature.

Everything else in Hinduism could disappear and it would make no difference to the world of today because all of that stuff has passed its sell by date, but Vedanta and Yoga are highly relevant today in the 21st century which is dominated by materialism, consumerism and psychological issues like anxiety, depression, stress and narcissism. Vedanta and Yoga are the perfect antidote to this.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:49 AM   #17
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isn't there another river, a big one in India? Liek the tigris & euphrates in africa?

a confluence of two?

Metaphor, esoteric perhaps? Maybe? But thats the laugh or not. Depends on how you see it.

When the scripture is in fact esoteric, but is read exotericly and the practice becomes traditon...and it's true meaning is lost...except to the true. So now you have 100 million literally bathing and doing other such things in the ganges thinking that they are doing the spiritual thing...when they are just bathing in a dirty river.


a snicker...
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:55 AM   #18
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^ ! ^
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:13 PM   #19
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Actually they are not idiots just uneducated ignorants that believes what is written in bhagavad gita. They think bathing in ganga will remove their sins, but the universal law, karma. Cant be washed away.

It is also written that krishna made the cast system so people would know their place , and they would get the birth by their qualities. Also it says only the hare krishna mantra will enlighten people in the age of kali. This is what the hare krishna movement also says .

I would say much in the bhagavad gita is not the truth. And bathing in ganga to remove your sins is one of them, also i think it was in bhagavd gita it is written that not even god can go against the karma or maybe i read it somewhere else. So if karma is the universal law how can a dip in sacred water remove that what you did wrong?

Also the aryans conquered rest of india who knows if they didnt put this in the book that people is born into the cast by their qualities ,to control the others, like other religions do. This is not impossible.

Even though many holy books are based on the truth it is not sure they are 100% genuine anymore. Actually the truth can only be experienced and the words can point to it. But the words in it self are never the truth.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:51 AM   #20
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It just came to my mind, maybe krishna said many will bathe in ganga to remove their sins. Not that it actually would.

I didnt read the original text only tanslations and it was a while ago, can anyone enlighten me on this matter?
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:16 PM   #21
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I will preface this post by saying I have a very realistic approach to the Bhagvad Gita, I do not eulogize it as some holy book. The Bhagvad Gita was written by some anonymous author who added the Gita to the Mahabharata, this most likely happened during the philosophical period when the battles were raging between the rival schools like Vedanta, Samkhya-Yoga and Buddhism, and the Gita was the earliest attempt to try and reconcile these contradictory viewpoints. This is why the Gita is quite a condradictory text, saying one thing in an earlier chapter and later saying the opposite thing. It was also the first attempt to give a human and personal face to the impersonal Brahman of the Upanishads, giving it the face of Vishnu, suggesting that it was probably an author within the Vaishnavist religion and hence the obvious Bhakti bias in the text.

Now to answer some of your points:

Quote:
It is also written that krishna made the cast system so people would know their place , and they would get the birth by their qualities.
No, Krishna says that he(speaking as god) made society according to the gunas. Traditional Hindu society was made up of the four classes: brahmin, kshatriya, vaishyas and shudras. This social system is as old as Vedic times. So we see here a divine explanation is given in the Gita to justify the system.

Quote:
Also it says only the hare krishna mantra will enlighten people in the age of kali. This is what the hare krishna movement also says .
The Gita does not say this, this comes from a far later modern Vaishnavist movement known as Gaudiya Vaishnavism. The ISKON belong to Gaudiya Vaishnavvism. The foundations for Gaudiya Vaishnavism comes from the Puranic period where there is a huge shift to bhakti, idol and temple worship. It is here these kinds of lazy beliefs are propogated that merely saying the name of god is enough to bring ones liberation, and it is justified by claiming it is deemed the best method to liberation in the Kali yuga.

Quote:
Also the aryans conquered rest of india who knows if they didnt put this in the book that people is born into the cast by their qualities ,to control the others, like other religions do. This is not impossible.
Highly contentious. Aryan invasion theory is today hugely controversial. It should not be stated as fact.

Quote:
And bathing in ganga to remove your sins is one of them
This is not in the Gita. This is just Puranic stupidity added later.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:09 PM   #22
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About aryans it must not have been invasion they might have lived in india and then won over others. I mean India is made up from many kingdoms. And also in the whole world people are mixed across the borders.

But this is not so important where the aryans came from. It is of no use actually.
For the mind it might be interesting though.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:16 PM   #23
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If we consider sanskrit was spoken in most of asia like europes latin we can consider that aryans did made a great impact on most of asian countries. Even in camboida there are temples like in india..
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:44 PM   #24
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Yeah, it does not matter where the Aryans really came from: Europe, India, Asia or Arctic. They were responsible for laying the foundation of modern civilization.
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