Calm rational discussion regarding Hinduism and Abrahamic religions

Namaste,

It is clear we Hindus have a superior religion, philosophy, culture and civilisation. However, the members on this forum want me to be politically correct and not actually say this. Yet, is it not interesting, the greatest intellectuals and scientists of the West have said this?

T.S. Elliot
Indian philosophers subtleties make most of the great European philosophers look like school children.

Albert Einstein
We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could be made

Julius R Oppenheimer
What we shall find in modern physics, is an exemplication,
and encouragement and refinement of ancient Hindu wisdom

Access to the Vedas is the greatest privelege this century may claim over all previous centuries

Francis M Voltaire
I am convinced everything has come down us from the banks of the Ganges
The Vedas were the most precious gift for which the West has been forever indebted to the East

Queen Fredrika
You Indians are fortunate to have inherited such knowledge, I envy you. While Greece is the country of my birth, India is the country of my soul.

It was my advanced research in physics that had started me on a spiritual quest. It culminated in me accepting the non-dualism or absolute monism of Sankara as my philosophy and science of life.

Arthur Schopenhauer
In the whole world there is no study so beneficial and so elevating as that of the Upanishads. It has been the solace of my life, and it will be solace of my death. They are the products of the highest wisdom

Frederich Von Schlegel
There is no language in the world, even Greek, which has the clarity and philosophical precision of Sanskrit, and this great India is not only at the origin of everything, she is superior in everything, intellectually, religiously or politically, and even the Greek heritage seems pale in comparison.

Henry David Thoreau
In the morning I bathe my intellect with the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita, and in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seems puny and trivial.

Besides the Bhagvad Gita, our Shakespeare seems sometimes youthfully green… Ex orient lux may still be the motto of scholars, for the Western world has not yet derived from the East all the light it is destined to derive thence

One sentence of Vedas is worth the entire state of Massachusetts many times over

Brian David Josepthson
The Vedanta and the Samkhya hold the keys to the laws of mind thought processes which are co-related to the quantum field, i.e., the operation and distribution of particles at atomic and molecular levels

Augustus William Von Schlegel
Even the loftiest philosophy of the Europeans appears like a feeble spark before the Vedanta

Bernard Shaw
The Indian way of life provides the vision of the natural, real way of life. We Westerners veil ourselves with unnatural masks. On the face of India are the tender expressions which carry the mark of the creator

Will Durant
India was the motherland of our race and Sanskrit the mother of Europes languages; she was the mother of our philosophy; mother through the Arabs, of much out of mathematics; mother through the Buddha, of the ideals embodied in Christianity; mother through the village community, of self-government and democracy. Mother India is in many ways the mother of us all

Annie Wood Besant
After a study of some 40 years and more of the great religions of the world, I find none so perfect, none of scientific, none so philosophical and none so spiritual than the great religion known as Hinduism

So I ask those members of this forum who are condemning me for my lack of political correctness in stating the superiority of Hinduism, why should I be polically correct, when some of the greatest intellectuals, scientists, nobel laurettes were not politically correct in stating the superiority of Hinduism? I must say I certainly share good company.

Hindusim is a superior religion and it does indeed make other religions look primitive and stupid. This is a fact. We Hindus are a superior civilisation, and the sooner you recognise this, the better it is for the future of our world. Abrahamic religions are as oudated as the dinosaurs.

Namaste Hubert,

Hinduism does not need science. Rather science needs Hinduism. There is nothing science can provide Hinduism, that is not already known in Hinduism.
So far it has been modern physicists which are looking towards Hinduism, than the other way around. Science must, to save itself from the trap of materialism, adopt the Vedanta view of reality. It must recognise that reality is a field of consciousness and that we(the observers) access this at various frequency ranges. Fortunately, many modern physicists are starting to embrace this model, so there is still hope for science.

Hinduism already teaches about the living Christ. There have been thousands of living Christs in Hinduism throughout the ages. Modern times require modern Christs. Find yourself a guru and it will be just like having the company of a Christ.

The Abrahamic religions are religions of the dead. Abraham is 3000 years out of date. Jesus is now 2000 years out of date. Mohammed is 1500 years out of date.

We need a religion that is up to date not out of date. If we won’t cosume out of date food, why do we consume out of date religions?

SD- I’m sure we could compile a list of intellectuals who can also say the same things about Buddhism, Christianity, etc. It’s wonderful that they said what you posted, but they are not saying other religions are wrong. They didn’t say Hinduism is superior and trumps all other religions. They “found a way”, a gentle way to let people know how wonderful Hinduism is and its wisdom. This my friend, is something you need to find…a gentle way of expressing your views. It has more to do with kindness and compassion toward others then being politically correct.

You are lucky that many Christians, especially Muslims are not faithful to their religion, otherwise they would be a terror on you. History will not forget what the Christians and Muslims have done to the religions of other people, even if people themselves forget.

A true Christian, Buddhist, etc. would not “show terror on you” as you suggested. This is just absurd! As far as not forgetting what has been done, I don’t think anyone will forget the violence of the past in the name of religion. We condemn it. We wish to never repeat the sins of our fathers. But hopefully, as time passed we learned “how” do deal more effectively in our struggles. No one should forget. But we should forgive.

Tolerance does not mean masking the truth so that others do not get offended. Do you know the number of Hindus that have been killed by Muslims is estimated to be about 50 million. Do you know how many tens of millions of Hindus were killed by the British? Do you know of the massacre of the Australian aborignes, Native Americans? These people have been virtually exterminated by these religions you are protecting from my words.

Why can you not speak the truth (as you see it) and still be tolerant? You can speak truth in such a way that is not offensive, condescending or arrogant. People do this all the time. We each have our truth and should respect others truth. Here in America we know what our forefathers did to the Native Americans. I do feel that they continue to be mistreated and this makes me cry for them. And the Blacks in our country continue to struggle for equality after we enslaved them. This is an ugly part of our history and we must acknowledge it. I feel most do. I also feel we have made great strides recently. But to condemn all Americans for what a few did, or have done, is not right. The majority of Americans are good caring people who don’t see color and who see character instead. What I’m trying to show you is you can’t judge all people by a represent few. I don’t judge all Hindus because of my dealings with you. I don’t think you reasoning hold up.

Lotusgirl,

Perhaps you could compile this list, but until you do not your point has no substance. Anyhow, my point was not to show that intellectuals have said great things about Hinduism, but that they were not politically correct in calling it superior. Such as:

“After a study of some 40 years and more of the great religions of the world, I find none so perfect, none of scientific, none so philosophical and none so spiritual than the great religion known as Hinduism”

In other words I am not the only one who considers Hinduism superior to all other religions. I am not going to be politically correct about this point. As this point is a clear fact.

Other religions are indeed wrong. We already know how fundamentally wrong they are. For example we know the earth is not flat, earth is not at the centre of the universe and the sun does not go around the earth. We know that resurrection is impossible. We know that a baptism does not cleanse your mind. We know that there is no heaven and hell out there in space.

This qualifies enough to be called wrong.

A true Christian, Buddhist, etc. would not “show terror on you” as you suggested. This is just absurd! As far as not forgetting what has been done, I don’t think anyone will forget the violence of the past in the name of religion. We condemn it. We wish to never repeat the sins of our fathers. But hopefully, as time passed we learned “how” do deal more effectively in our struggles. No one should forget. But we should forgive.

Hmm, I never said Buddhist. Buddhism is very much a part of Hinduism, as are Jainism and Sikhism. They are considered to be part of the dharma family of religions. I am critiquing the Abrahamic religions here, so don’t conflate them. The fact of the matter is, no matter how great your resolve to not commit the sins of your forefathers, the fact of the matter is the doctrines that produced those sins in the first place, are still alive in those religions today. You want the honest truth? The Taliban are Good muslims. They are doing exactly what their religion says, “Kill the non-believers”

What we need here is not forgiveness but rejection. Why are we still entertaining these religions when we know they are wrong? Reject them and move on. This is the general problem with the West, even once it has discovered something is untrue, it still holds onto it because it lack honesty.

Why can you not speak the truth (as you see it) and still be tolerant? You can speak truth in such a way that is not offensive, condescending or arrogant. People do this all the time. We each have our truth and should respect others truth.

That is because I cannot control your reaction to the truth. I am going to say the truth in a straight forward way. I can say it in a harsh way, in a nice way, but however I say it is going to be the truth. I can tell the emperor he is naked, or I can say he is not wearing any clothes, or tell him to put it away, but either way I am saying exactly the same thing. How many different ways is there of saying Hinduism is a superior religion? Please tell me a polite, not offensive and non-condescending way of saying this.

You are under a mistaken impression that there are several truths and everybody will have their own individual truth. No, there is only one truth, and others will have false knowledge. Either the world is flat or it is a sphere. It cannot be both flat and a sphere.

I recently cornered you and your husband through rational argument on the doctrine of no-self that you believe in. You had no choice anymore either your husband was an imposter or the doctrine of no self was false. As you knew you were cornered you reacted with outrage and anger. You see your outrage and anger did not change the fact that I had demonstrated conclusively that the doctrine you held onto was false. You had lost that debate, but you lacked the honesty to admit it.

As I said the biggest problem with Western civilisation, which is what you are a part of, you lack honesty. This holds you back from making progress. This you are hearing from a superior civilisation that has made loads of progress. Perhaps it is within your best interests to listen.

By the way I never condemened Americans. Not sure where you got that from. Perhaps you should read what I write more carefully? I am condemning the Abrahamic religions for the curse they have been on this planet. They have had their chance to show what had to offer this world and we know they are nonsense. Those who continue to hold onto these religions are like children refusing to let go of Santa claus.

"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth.
Niels Bohr

"All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree."
Albert Einstein

They call it “faith” for a reason.

dear ia,
truth is truth, no adjective will reinforce it.
truth aka ‘sat’ remains and means the same in past, present, future, n beyond, so say the scriptures.
regards,
rk

Namaste Prasad,

The Western man is arrogant and believes that he can construct truth. He constructs truth according to his bias, needs and interests. This is what Lotusgirl really means by saying “Everybody has their own truth” However, we know clearly that this is bogus. Of course there is truth. We know this entire universe is governed by knowable principles and laws of cause and effect that we can observe and use to make scientific predictions.

If we compare Hinduism and Christianity side by side we can see which one is correct and which one is incorrect.

Hinduism says that the Earth is shaped like a sphere and rotates on its axis and goes around orbit around the sun held by the attraction of the sun. Christianity says that the Earth is flat, at the centre of the universe, and the sun goes around the Earth(In Islam it is taught the sun goes into the sea at night)

Hinduism says that the universe is constantly expanding and contracting over trillions of years and is consists of innumerable solar systems. It says the Earth is approx 4 billion years old and human civilisation is hundresds of thousands of years old. Christianity says all of creation was made in 7 days.

Hinduism says that the human being has evolved first from chemical processes where heat and water combined, then from single celled organisms to more complex organisms, then to humans. Christianity teaches that the first human was Adam, from his rib was created Eve.

Hindusm says that we commit wrong actions because our intellect become clouded by desires and attachments which leads to anxiety, fear and anger, and thence wrong perception. Christianity teaches that we are born sinners because Adam and Eve went against god’s word and ate an apple from a forbidden tree.

Hinduism says that in order for us to end our personal suffering, we must purify our mind through the practice of Yoga and meditation, whereby we can become happy, peaceful and loving beings. Christianity teaches that we can go to a place called heaven if we accept Jesus as our lord and saviour. Just accepting Jesus is enough to be accepted in heaven.

Hinduism says that the soul merely associates with a body, and at the time of sleep and death, the soul disassociates from the body and enters the mind, where it temporarily is subject to mental projections, and then returns back to the/a body. This cycle continues until the soul has exhausted its desires. Christianity teaches that there will be a judgement day where everbody will rise from the grave and stand judgement before god.

Hinduism teaches that an impersonal law of cause and effect(karma) governs every action and reaction. That is because every action produces a memory of the action which is stored in our unconscious mind, which are triggered by stimuli in the world. Christianity teaches that every action is noted by god sitting on his throne in heaven and he rewards you with eternal life or punishes you with eternal damnation on judgement day.

Hinduism teaches that we are all potentially divine beings and must actualise our potential through the refinement of our thoughts, actions and speech in this life. Christianity teaches that we are all sinners, we must atone for our sins by accepting Jesus as the way, life and truth, and gain a place in heaven. In this place we are still lower than Jesus(the son) and the heirarchy of angels.

Hinduism teaches that we must both know and live in accordance with the laws of the universe in order to be prosperous. Christianity teaches that we must follow the 10 commandments, one of them which is that god is jealous and does not want any other god before him.

It is easy to see which religion is true and which religion is false.

[QUOTE=Alix;35634]They call it “faith” for a reason.[/QUOTE]

Namaste Alix,

The Abrahamic religions are definitely faith. Hinduism, on the other hand is not a faith. It is a science. Hinduism observes very similar methods of gaining systematic knowledge as the scientific method does, the difference being, Hinduism admits of several kinds of scientific methods because some kinds of knowledge require different means of knowledge.

If you want to know about the empirical world than direct observation is required. I can analyse a compound for instance and categorise all of its properties. However, if you want to know about the metaphysical world(i.e., the world beyond the senses) then you require intellectual and rational analysis(philosophy) and if you want to know about the experiental world, then you require phenomenology(Yoga and meditation)

Nothing in Hinduism is therefore based on faith. This is what makes Hinduism the worlds only scientific religion. Hence why it is so popular with scientists.

Read this article for further insight: http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Sanatana_Dharma_a_religion_or_science

It is a shame there are no people of Islam faith to defend themselves on this forum.

Surya Deva, As requested. These are quotes from notable scientists on Christianity:

Quotes from Famous Scientists

Johannes Kepler [1571-1630]
Astronomy/Laws of Planetary Motion
"I had the intention of becoming a theologian…but now I see how God is, by my endeavors, also glorified in astronomy, for ‘the heavens declare the glory of God.’"
“I am a Christian…I believe… only and alone in the service of Jesus Christ…In Him is all refuge, all solace.”
“Let my name perish if only the name of God the Father is thereby elevated.”
"[God] is the kind Creator who brought forth nature out of nothing."


Blaise Pascal [1623-1662]
Scientist noted for work in physics, hydrostatics, vacuums; inventor of mechanical calculator
"Jesus Christ, I have separated myself from Him:
I have fled from Him, denied Him, crucified Him.
Let me never be separated from Him.
We keep hold of Him only by the ways taught in the Gospel.
Renunciation, total and sweet.
Total submission to Jesus Christ…"
{from a manuscript dated Monday November 23, 1654 and found in his own handwriting in his coat at his death}

“Knowing God without knowing our own wretchedness engenders pride. Knowing our own wretchedness without knowing God engenders despair.” [Pascal - Pensees no 527]
*Also famous for “Pascal’s Wager”–a powerful defense of the Christian faith


Robert Boyle [1627-1691]
Founder of Modern Chemistry/Gas Dynamics
Governor of Missionary organization for propagating the gospel in New England
Personally financed the translation of the Bible into Irish, Turkish, and Arabic
Author of “The Christian Virtuoso” reflecting on the study of nature for Christians
Author of Christian devotional book, “Occasional Reflections"
His will after his death financed the “Boyle Lectures” which were lectures in defense of Christianity
"From a knowledge of His work, we shall know Him”
“Christ’s passion, His death, His resurrection and ascension, and all of those wonderful works which He did during His stay upon earth, in order to confirm mankind in the belief of His being God as well as man.”


Sir Isaac Newton [1642-1727]
Mathematician, Physicist
Inventor of calculus
Law of universal gravitation
Newton’s three laws of motion:

  1. Law of inertia 2) Force=mass*acceleration 3) Principle of action and reaction
    Published "Newton’s Prophecies of Daniel"
    after his study and translation of the Book of Daniel [in the Bible]
    “About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition.”

“There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history.”

" This thing [a scale model of our solar system] is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a designer and maker; yet you, as an atheist, profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?"


Sir William Herschel [1738-1822]
Astronomist. Discovered Uranus, several nebulae, and binary stars.
First to accurately describe the Milky Way Galaxy
“All human discoveries seem to be made only for the purpose of confirming more and more
the Truths contained in the Sacred Scriptures.”
“The undevout astronomer must be mad.”


Samuel Morse [1791-1872]
Inventor of the telegraph [Morse’s sketch of the railway telegraph above]
"Education without religion is in danger of substituting wild theories for the simple commonsense rules of Christianity."
First message sent by the electric telegraph:
“What hath God wrought”
{This is found in the Bible; Numbers 23:23}
{The message was sent from the Supreme Court Room in the Capitol to the railway depot at Baltimore; May 24, 1844}
{In one letter, Samuel Morse wrote “What hath GOD wrought” by capitalizing and underlining “GOD” twice!}


Michael Faraday [1791-1867]
Inventor of the electric generator and the transformer
Discovered Benzene–used to make plastics, nylon and dyes
Produced the first test tubes
Described Field Theory
Hailed by Albert Einstein as the foundation for his own scientific discoveries
Elder in his church for over 20 years
"Speculations? I have none. I am resting on certainties. ‘I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.’"
“A Christian finds his guide in the Word of God, and commits the keeping of his soul into the hands of God. He looks for no assurance beyond what the Word can give him, and if his mind is troubled by the cares and fears which assail him, he can go nowhere but in prayer to the throne of
grace and to Scripture.”
“Since peace is alone in the gift of God; and as it is He who gives it, why should we be afraid? His unspeakable gift in His beloved Son is the ground of no doubtful hope.” --[1861 letter]
“The Bible, and it alone, with nothing added to it nor taken away from it by man, is the sole and sufficient guide for each individual, at all times and in all circumstances…For faith in the divinity and work of Christ is the gift of God, and the evidence of this faith is obedience to the commandment of Christ.”


Matthew Maury [1806-1873]
The “Father” of oceanography
Aided in the laying of the first trans-Atlantic cable
Maury believed Psalm 8:8, which speaks of the “paths of the seas” , and he discovered "oceanic currents"
Maury described atmospheric circulation and showed that it was already described in Ecclesiastes 1:6
Maury showed Job 28:25 to be true with respect to the weight of the winds.

“The Bible is true and science is true, and therefore each, if truly read, but proves the truth of the other.”


James Prescott Joule [1818-1889]
Described the First Law of Thermodynamics: The Law of Conservation of Energy
[American Biochemist Isaac Asimov said that the First Law of Thermodynamics is
"one of the most important generalizations in the history of science"]
Kinetic Theory of Gases
"Joule-Thomson" effect–the basis of refrigeration
A unit of energy [work] in physics is now called a “joule”

“It is evident that an acquaintance with natural laws means no less than
an acquaintance with the mind of God therein expressed.”
“Order is manifestly maintained in the universe…governed by the sovereign will of God”
“After the knowledge of, and obedience to, the will of God, the next aim must be to know something of His attributes of wisdom, power, and goodness as evidenced by His handiwork.”


James Clerk Maxwell [1831-1879]
Statistical Thermodynamics, Field equations of electricity, magnetism, light

" No theory of evolution can be formed to account for the similarity of molecules,
for evolution necessarily implies continuous change."

“Almighty God, Who has created man in Thine own image, and made him a living soul that he might seek after Thee,
and have dominion over Thy creatures, teach us to study the works of Thy hands, that we may subdue the earth to our use, and strengthen the reason for Thy service; so to receive Thy blessed Word, that we may believe on Him Who Thou has sent, to give us the knowledge of salvation and the remission of our sins. All of which we ask in the name of the same Jesus Christ, our Lord.” {prayer written by Maxwell and found amongst his notes}

Maxwell was an elder in the church he helped establish near his home.


Louis Pasteur [1822-1895]
Father of Microbiology, developed “pasteurization”
“The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator.”
“Science brings men nearer to God.”


Jean-Henri Fabre [1823-1915]
Entomology, Biology
Author of 8-volume series "Souvenirs Entomologiques"
detailing the behavior and life history of many species

“Without Him, I understand nothing; without Him, all is darkness…Every period has its manias.
I regard Atheism as a mania. It is the malady of the age.
You could take my skin from me more easily than my faith in God.”


Sir Joseph Lister [1827-1912]
Father of antiseptic surgery, first to wire fractures, developed dissolving sutures
"I am a believer in the fundamental doctrines of Christianity"


Lord Kelvin [William Thomson] [1824-1907]
Physicist, Laws of Thermodynamics, Absolute temperature scale, inventor
"With regard to the origin of life, science…positively affirms creative power."
“Overwhelmingly strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around us…
the atheistic idea is so non-sensical that I cannot put it into words.”


George Washington Carver [c. 1864-1943]
agricultural chemist, inventor of over 300 products
"Without my Savior, I am nothing."
“I love to think of nature as an unlimited broadcasting station,
through which God speaks to us every hour, if we will only tune in.”
“God is going to reveal to us things he never revealed before if we put our hands in his. No books ever go into my laboratory, a thing I am to do and the way of doing it are revealed me.”

I recently cornered you and your husband through rational argument on the doctrine of no-self that you believe in. You had no choice anymore either your husband was an imposter or the doctrine of no self was false. As you knew you were cornered you reacted with outrage and anger. You see your outrage and anger did not change the fact that I had demonstrated conclusively that the doctrine you held onto was false. You had lost that debate, but you lacked the honesty to admit it.

    Dear Surya,  go back and review our conversation under Dogma Free Yoga and you shall see that what you have stated above is not the truth.  I was kind, with no anger in my response to you telling me my husband was an imposter.  You speak of truth yet do not practice it.

As I said the biggest problem with Western civilisation, which is what you are a part of, you lack honesty. This holds you back from making progress. This you are hearing from a superior civilisation that has made loads of progress. Perhaps it is within your best interests to listen.

    You cannot generalize like this.  To assume that everyone except Hindus are dishonest is plain wrong.  How can you even think this way?  This is NOT TOLERANCE!

Words like “superior” also does nothing to further “your cause”. Superior is a condescending term when used this way. It is a subjective term.

And the reason I brought up about Americans:

What I’m trying to show you is you can’t judge all people by a represent few. I don’t judge all Hindus because of my dealings with you. I don’t think you reasoning hold u

     This was the last few sentences in my post explaining.  I used  America and how we treated the blacks and Native Americans trying to show you that, Yes it did happen.  But we are not those people today.  We have evolved.  To judge all Americans be what some did years ago is wrong.  This goes to your point about Abrahamic religions having a history of violence.  That too was years ago and people were different back then.  Again, people have evolved and learn how to deal with differences through dialogue instead of violence. (for the most part)  This is something the Dalai Lama talks often about.  So you could have read my response more closely too.

Just a few more:

All the religions of the world, while they may differ in other respects, unitedly proclaim that nothing lives in this world but Truth.
Mohandas Gandhi

Gentleness, self-sacrifice and generosity are the exclusive possession of no one race or religion.
~ Mahatma Gandhi (born: 1869-10-02 died: 1948-01-30 at age: 78)

Religion is more than life. Remember that his own religion is the truest to every man, even if it stands low in the scales of philosophical comparison.
~ Mahatma Gandhi (born: 1869-10-02 died: 1948-01-30 at age: 78)

The Dalai Lama
This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.

God made so many different kinds of people. Why would he allow only one way to serve him? ~Martin Buber

All religions must be tolerated… for… every man must get to heaven his own way. ~Frederick the Great

Doubt everything. Find your own light.

-Last words of Gotama Buddha, in Theravada tradition

All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree.
Albert Einstein

Surya Deva

To borrow from Zen Buddhism… Your cup is full

Some things in this thread are getting more and more dark. E.g. if Hinduism is superior (and its even more than that - its pure science and all religions are just irrational beliefs bringing suffering to people), logical consequence is that other religions should be abandoned and people should convert. Process should start with rewriting the history and separating superstitious religious practices in India from true Hinduism which is true and only science of reality. Purification of people of other religions is for their good so removal of all obstacles on the way to this goal is justified (even if it would result with some discomfort - its just pain of transformation to better self and better world in the end). Also, people of true religion should be given priority in jobs of responsibility, related with decision making and opinion formation (so media included). After all such jobs influence how world moves on so in interest of true religion those positions should be given first to appropriate people. Also, it seems reasonable to purify education system of elements related to false religions. Minds of young kids are very naive and should be protected from bad influences until they reach appropriate age. Think how much damage to their minds could be avoided if they would learn just pure and true religion-science. List can go on…

Its all very logical, isn’t it?

Namaste Lotusgirl,

The difference in the quotes I listed and the quotes you listed, is the quotes made about Hinduism is by non-Hindu Western intellectuals commenting on its philosophy, sciences and history and even borrowing from it(Arthur Schopenhauer and Nicole Tesla both based their works on Hinduism, and admited they did) The quotes you listed are from Christian scientists praising Christianity as their faith. For example:

“From a knowledge of His work, we shall know Him”
“Christ’s passion, His death, His resurrection and ascension, and all of those wonderful works which He did during His stay upon earth, in order to confirm mankind in the belief of His being God as well as man.”

Dear Surya, go back and review our conversation under Dogma Free Yoga and you shall see that what you have stated above is not the truth. I was kind, with no anger in my response to you telling me my husband was an imposter. You speak of truth yet do not practice it.

Nonsense, you were not kind. You were angry and condemned me for saying this. Rather than seeing the point I was making which was either your husband was an imposter or the no self doctrine was false. I had conclusively demonstrated the no-self doctrine was false and you had no way out.

You cannot generalize like this. To assume that everyone except Hindus are dishonest is plain wrong. How can you even think this way? This is NOT TOLERANCE!
Words like “superior” also does nothing to further “your cause”. Superior is a condescending term when used this way. It is a subjective term.

Nope, I have not assumed everyone except Hindus is dishonest. I have said this is a general problem with Western civilisation that it when it discovers truth, it does not acknowledge it right away because it goes against what it believes. For example Socrates was executed for speaking the truth. Jesus was also executed. So was Galileo. It took almost 20 years to accept Einstein’s work on the photoelectric effect. We have now had a century of research in parapsychology and it still not accepted. Quantum mechanics has proven since 1930 that the observer collapses the wavefunction, but now we are in 2010 and still this is not accepted. So generally the West has a problem with honesty. This holds it back from making progress.

I knew there was no other way of saying Hinduism is superior that you would consider polite, non-condescending and tolerant. I am afraid though that is exactly what I am arguing and so far I have demonstrated it very well as well.

You have a particular philosophy called relativism. That is fair enough you are entitled to your worldview, but this does not mean I am suppose to agree with it. Nor are you entitled to impose that philosophy on me. Not all religions are equal, and I have already demonstrated this with my recent comparison between Christianity and Hinduism.

Surya,

Not all my quotes were from Christian scientists or intellectuals. Read them again. On my second post, there are many from Gandhi and others like Einstein, Dalai Lama. Especially the Gandhi quotes go to the point of many religions and tolerance and “we’re all trying to get there using different paths”.

You also did not respond to my point about 1. Anger and re-reading the discussion between us. I was not angry. 2. Generalizing and using works like 'superior’
3. Reason I brought up about America.

Also another interesting thought to ponder. I just had a discussion recently with a friend who has spent much time in India over the last 5 years. He could not believe how western India has become and is becoming. He said western culture is everywhere and they can’t get enough of it. I found that curious in light of our discussions here so I asked why? His response was Western culture is simpler and easier to follow than the complex, scientific Hindu religion and lifestyle.

One final quote: “I think that would be a good idea” Mahatma Gandhi’s opinion of western culture. Hum…

[QUOTE=Pawel;35652]Some things in this thread are getting more and more dark. E.g. if Hinduism is superior (and its even more than that - its pure science and all religions are just irrational beliefs bringing suffering to people), logical consequence is that other religions should be abandoned and people should convert. Process should start with rewriting the history and separating superstitious religious practices in India from true Hinduism which is true and only science of reality. Purification of people of other religions is for their good so removal of all obstacles on the way to this goal is justified (even if it would result with some discomfort - its just pain of transformation to better self and better world in the end). Also, people of true religion should be given priority in jobs of responsibility, related with decision making and opinion formation (so media included). After all such jobs influence how world moves on so in interest of true religion those positions should be given first to appropriate people. Also, it seems reasonable to purify education system of elements related to false religions. Minds of young kids are very naive and should be protected from bad influences until they reach appropriate age. Think how much damage to their minds could be avoided if they would learn just pure and true religion-science. List can go on…

Its all very logical, isn’t it?[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily.

In Hinduism nobody is forced to accept Hindu religion. Moreover, one cannot become Hindu by adopting any beliefs, they become Hindu through practicing its core tenets, such as living in accordance with dharma and striving constantly for self-realization. As such Hinduism is a personal religion and hence a personal choice. This is why in the history of Hinduism no attempt has been made to convert others to Hinduism.

Hindusim spreads through cultural and intellectual exchange whereby a non-Hindu accepts its core tenets and practices by their own choice. Often, they initiate the interest themselves. Like I have pointed out before, 20 million Americans practicing Yoga and chanting Hindu mantras have not been forced by anybody to do it. They do it out of their own personal choice. I chose Hinduism myself, nobody converted me to it.

Hinduism does not have any doctrine of chosen ones, for it holds everybody in humanity as equally capable irrrespective of caste, creed, sect, gender, sexuality. Hinduism rather than being a peoples religion, is a universal way of life, science and philosophy which teaches principles that should be followed for prospertity. It those principles that we need model the world on, its socio-economic structure, education system, science, medicine and religion. This will lead to a properous future for the entire world. Now, this of course can only happen by accepting Hinduism is superior and that it is the Hindu way of life we need to adopt.

I have a hard time thinking of a civilization as superior when that civilization places people in castes, with the lower castes alloted ‘slavery’ privileges, little girls are married off at age 4 to pedophiles, its city streets strewn with garbage and litter and poor castes made to live in filthy shacks, its sanitary system and public transport incomparable in its ineffectiveness, its politicians corrupt with greed beyond the dreams of Avarice. Nevermind worshipping blue gods with elephant noses and no end of arms. I mean, it makes for neat art, but superior??? I don’ t’ink so.

There’s still some ‘splainin’ to do.

Nonsense, you were not kind. You were angry and condemned me for saying this. Rather than seeing the point I was making which was either your husband was an imposter or the no self doctrine was false. I had conclusively demonstrated the no-self doctrine was false and you had no way out.

I challenge you to go back and re-read the discussion again. I said nothing that could have construed as being angry or condemning you. This is nonsense! I kept saying let’s make peace and agree to disagree. You were the angry one because I chose not to further engage. And BTW, my husband is a teacher and really does have a masters. Actually quite close to a PHD in Education. He worked his butt off to get that masters while working full time with 3 small children. Don’t assume you know anything about him. Having a masters in Philosophy, he knew in reading your posts, that you weren’t listening to what was being shared. We explained the rape issue and why Buddhists would never do such a thing. YOU chose not to listen.

[QUOTE]Nope, I have not assumed everyone except Hindus is dishonest. I have said this is a general problem with Western civilisation that it when it discovers truth, it does not acknowledge it right away because it goes against what it believes. For example Socrates was executed for speaking the truth. Jesus was also executed. So was Galileo. It took almost 20 years to accept Einstein’s work on the photoelectric effect. We have now had a century of research in parapsychology and it still not accepted. Quantum mechanics has proven since 1930 that the observer collapses the wavefunction, but now we are in 2010 and still this is not accepted. So generally the West has a problem with honesty. This holds it back from making progress.

[/QUOTE]

Yes you have. Your first sentence said, ‘it’s a general problem’. That is generalizing.
The West is a melting pot of many, if not all religions. You cannot generalize like this.

My apologies for my post previous asking for a response. You must have posted it while I was typing.