In this thread InnerAthlete talks about how yoga takes us to the parasympathetic state. I feel that many of us are stuck operating from the sympathetic nervous system. My opening question here is how do you know when you are operating primarily from a sympathetic nervous system and how do you know when you are operating primarily from the parasympathetic nervous system? How do you feel in one versus the other? What is going on physiologically? What is going on mentally?
The sympathetic nervous system controlls the ‘fight or flight’ response. It is responsible for, amongst other things, adrenaline secretion. The parasympathetic nervous system mediates the ‘rest and digest’ state. At all times both are operating, but at any particular time you can think of one being the ‘dominant force’ - i.e. if you’ve just had your arm bitten off by a lion, your sympathetic system will be firing on all cylinders. If you’re asleep in bed after a big meal, the parasympathetic is doing more.
You can’t quantify what state you’re in but things which might suggest a sympathetic drive would be feeling stressed, jumpy, butterflies, fast heart and breathing, dilated pupils, flushing, perspiration, etc.
My interpretation of InnerAthelete’s comment was that many people do not recognise subtle muscle tension, mental tension, distracting thoughts, etc. As a typical guy from a ‘western society’ I could tell you a lot about the physiology, if you want, but I look forward to hearing from InnerAthlete. I suspect the intention of the comment doesn’t really pertain to nervous anatomy.
[B]Stuck in a sympathetic state[/B], we are not. We have chosen it. It is a by-product of our lifestyle. It is not something thrust upon us by others. When we elect to bombard ourselves with stimuli - lights, action, noise, talking, entertainment, doing, going, running, over scheduling - then the body responds…and the adrenals burn out.
[B]The choices[/B] a practitioner has are many. One such student asked me how he could become more flexible. And while I did provide some physiological points I also asked him how his lifestyle was supporting his intention. I specifically asked about his eating, drinking, and environmental choices and how they were helping him toward the goal of being more supple and doing “advanced” asanas. Is he really choosing to be more flexible?
[B]‘How do we know’[/B] David asks? Many do not. It is an awareness issue, a lack of sensitivity. If you cannot feel your serratus anterior how then could you feel something more which requires greater sensitivity? If you cannot observe your emotions before launching them into a closed universe how then could you hope to observe your nervous system?
[B]Precisely the reason[/B], though not the only reason, we do yoga (not asana, but including asana). It is to know the Self, in part through the process of heightening, honing, and refining the awareness. It is only from a position of awareness that we can live in the moment and make decisions that serve us in ways that do not facilitate suffering. Otherwise we are making choice based on some hedonistic flavor of the day or “personal taste” which not only wavers with the winds but is pressured by the voice of the untransformed vital and mental energies.
That having been said, Jetstream outlines some of the physiological characteristics of the nervous system response. You could walk around all day taking your pulse, measuring your skin temperature, looking at your pupils, and gauging your psoas. But that’s neither very effective nor very practical. Have a 2 minute savasana ten times a day. Now that’s practical.
That is what doctors tell us. However, I have to wonder if that is when we are at the height of fight or flight. As our body stops pumping massive amounts of cortisol, epinephrine and nor-epinephrine into our system and we start to come down a little, we may not exhibit those symptoms. But I wonder (I think yes) if we’re still operating primarily from the sympathetic nervous system and aren’t even aware of it.[quote=InnerAthlete;14703][B]Stuck in a sympathetic state[/B], we are not. We have chosen it.[/quote]
What an awesome perspective! I never looked at it like that. In the end, it IS a choice. Deciding to cultivate the opposite may seem impossible based upon our lifestyle and what we have been taught, but it IS a choice. Thanks Gordon 
Another question: can we be “present” when operating primarily from the sympathetic nervous system? Or is the Now felt when operating primarily from the parasympathetic nervous system?
[QUOTE=David;14705]Another question: can we be “present” when operating primarily from the sympathetic nervous system? Or is the Now felt when operating primarily from the parasympathetic nervous system?[/QUOTE]
Being present (and I don’t even like the term) appears to be exponentially reductive as the nervous system moves from parasympathetic to sympathetic.
That would make sense to me. I’d think it would be like someone who just drank 10 beers trying to tell themselves, “I’m not drunk, I’m not drunk, I’m not drunk”. In the end, they’d still blow a .20.
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever noticed what the bodies of animals or young children tend to do as they begin to exit the fight, flight, frozen response?
I would like to offer the view of my own teacher, Sri Durga Devi: She once said that the sympathetic system prepare us to face our external world and environment, whereas the parasympathetic system help us to move into our inner world and to experience our true Self.
Do we know in which one we are? I think it depends on the needs of the moment, most people swing between the two without realising it. Personally I think that recognition comes with awareness, as we evolve and grow spiritually, our awareness grows as well and you start to become more conscious of these different apsects of your body.
[QUOTE=David;14705]That is what doctors tell us. However, I have to wonder if that is when we are at the height of fight or flight. As our body stops pumping massive amounts of cortisol, epinephrine and nor-epinephrine into our system and we start to come down a little, we may not exhibit those symptoms. But I wonder (I think yes) if we’re still operating primarily from the sympathetic nervous system and aren’t even aware of it.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, and as InnerAthlete says, if you’re not aware of the subtle signs and really know yourself, how would you know? Of course, that is the apex of the response but it illustrates the point.
Be careful mixing philosophy and physiology - it makes a nice anecdote but doesn’t necessarily do either method any justice. Often, one cannot explain the other. If you could measure how strong the sympathetic outflow was, would you try to reduce it? Or, would it be a surrogate marker / reflection of your state of mind?
If those people who ARE operating primarily from the parasympathetic nervous system can give details on how it feels, then those who aren’t might gain awareness that they aren’t. As we all know, awareness can go a long way. As GI Joe said, “Knowing is half the battle” 
Most would say that PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) is on the far range of the spectrum when it comes to fight or flight. However, how many of us live with these symptoms? Maybe there is a silent epidemic in the world and we don’t even realize it.
Are you referring to me comparing the alcohol and all of this? If so, yeah, that was probably lacking If that’s not what you mean, can you please elaborate?
Can you explain what you mean by this please? I’m not understanding.
Thanks for taking part in this conversation, I’m thoroughly enjoying it!
Firstly, it is probably obvious that I might have a particular viewpoint on any discussion of the autonomic nervous system, and that I am clearly a beginner at yoga, so take what I say with a giant pinch of salt and listen to people who know more about it than I.
[QUOTE=David;14731]Are you referring to me comparing the alcohol and all of this? If so, yeah, that was probably lacking If that’s not what you mean, can you please elaborate?[/QUOTE]
No, actually. My interpretation is this. In our world (more so our developed world), we are in a constant state of arousal. This arousal might take the form of ‘itchy feet’, excitement at purchasing something nice or driving a fast car, sexual arousal, political arousal, getting distracted when trying to concentrate, ecstatic highs of positive emotion, crashing lows of self-doubt.
Western medicine has constructed the idea of an autonomic nervous system separated into the parasympathetic and sympathetic. These are anatomically distinct and do different things. In the above situations, there are physiological responses which to a great degree are medicated by the sympathetic nervous system. Therefore, it is quite convenient to refer to ourselves as ‘operating predominately from the sympathetic system’. The statement isn’t wrong, but it doesn’t explain everything here.
InnerAthlete suggests (I think) that many of us, even when we feel relaxed are actually somewhat in turmoil. He uses an example of tension in a muscle which many of us don’t know we have, and in which even fewer could identify tension. Another example might be a distracting thought which come when practicing asanas - did we even notice it?
I believe that the conscious mind is like the surface of a lake - there’s a lot going on underneath. So, even if the surface is completely calm, the currents may be strong. How would you know the currents are strong, if you can only see the surface? [I]That[/I], I believe, is the question. Back to your second question David, if you knew the currents were there, would you try to slow them down or try to find the source?
I’ve enjoyed the short cut – ‘are your hands cold?’ – to guage where you are on the continuum between stressed and relaxed. Cold hands often indicate you’re keeping your blood safe from danger away from your extremeties.
Unfortunately your higher thinking skills are also bypassed when you’re too stressed out, so remembering to check whether your hands are cold generally happens when your hands are warm.
What role does intuition play in this?
Whilst being Intuitive I am not aware of being intuitive, my best quality work is done whilst I am intuitive. So I know I was being Intuitive retrospectively. I also think that whilst in an intuitive state the parasympathetic nervous system is the ‘dominant force’ (to paraphrase jetstream).
My question to David, IA, jetstream & anyone else is that to what extent are you aware you are being intuitive?
After many years of Yoga & spiritual practices I know ? that if I experience good asanas , puja and then follow it by meditation then that leads me to experience a good intuitive state which sometimes lasts for an hour or so. I expect I am during that phase operating predominately via the parasympathetic nervous system.
To consider David?s original question ? ?how do you know when you are operating primarily from the parasympathetic nervous system? ? I know that in this state I am more intuitive.