“God created the soul of man as much like him that nobody should live in it as god alone.” Master Eckerhard ( an old christian mystik man).
That sounds to me very yogi style.
All the best
Lars
[quote=oak333;14161]Perhaps this question should be adressed to Hubert, as his location is Romania.[/quote]Yes, thanks. I would like to know more as I find it hard to believe anyone could be so unwise as to persecute yogis.
[QUOTE=Lars Rimb?ck;14165]The word Yoga has the same like the western word religion.
In india a lot of yogis call Jesus christ a Yogi.
If you are looking onto religions finaly they are all one.
You can be a chistian, a hind, a moslem or none of them and still benefit of Yoga.
Is?nt that wonderfull
Lars[/QUOTE]
In my opinion, you are right. Yoga is NOT a religion but a method to practise
religion. Yoga clearly says to choose your own deity. You can choose Jesus Christ, St. Paul, Ganesh, the Buddha, prophet Mohamed etc.
Maybe the yogis call Jesus Christ an yogi but we do not know what the yogis know. Their statement might have significance beyond our understanding.
Probably you are right: all religions are just one. In Bhagavad Gida this ithing is clearly stated. Personally, I compare all religions with different paths to the same mountain top.
Just to clarify, since i am a muslim here:), Muslims don’t worship Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him), he’s the final prophet sent from God. I also believe that all religions are one.
if you compare buddhisam to islam it’s extremely similar same with almost any other religion.
[QUOTE=oak333;14179]In my opinion, you are right. Yoga is NOT a religion but a method to practise religion. Yoga clearly says to choose your own deity. You can choose Jesus Christ, St. Paul, Ganesh, the Buddha, prophet Mohamed etc.
Maybe the yogis call Jesus Christ an yogi but we do not know what the yogis know. Their statement might have significance beyond our understanding.
Probably you are right: all religions are just one. In Bhagavad Gida this ithing is clearly stated. Personally, I compare all religions with different paths to the same mountain top.[/QUOTE]
is there a difference between the deities you’ve mentioned & the “mountain top” ? do we need a deity to reach that mountain top ?
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. There is a company in Arizona called Yahweh Yoga - which {as I understand it} is a blend between Christianity and Eastern Yoga. One consideration for me is … to make a parallel between Martial Arts. Martial arts is also an Eastern physical practice that has an underlying Value system - and many Christians practice Martial arts without quarrel.
I believe the underlying Value system of Yoga and the values of Christian believers is not in Conflict. So therefore, a Christian can practice physical yoga with a clear conscience.
The practices of meditation and introspection are supported in the Christian faith.
[QUOTE=PatR;14184]is there a difference between the deities you’ve mentioned & the “mountain top” ? do we need a deity to reach that mountain top ?[/QUOTE]
Probably there is no difference bewteen deities at the mountain top. I think there is only one God.
But who am I to judge God and his aspects ?
Do we need a deity to practise yoga ? I think we do. In books of yoga I read
about choosing your own God (Ishwara) and Ishware Pranidhana (devotion to God).
The terminology might be confusing. You can read in The Buddha or in yoga books about “Gods.” In actual fact, in my opinion, there is only one God, who
takes different aspects.
But who am I to judge God and his aspects ?
I might get to that later on, after searching the Bhagavad Gita .
The mountain top is for all the same and it is just One. But the many paths (read deities, religion, spiritual practices) which leads to the summit, those are very different and diverse, especially at the foot of the mountain when the paths are far from each other. We all reach the summit through our own path, but the closer you get to the summit, the more your awareness grows that all the paths leads to the same summit and instead of being exclusive you become inclusive. Just my take on this, Pat. 
The clash here is not between various truth’s but between various people’s limited perception of the same thruth.
The truth is really one.
Anyone who thinks he has an exquisite knowledge of truth, while others being ignorants and victims of illusions and error, is also wrong. This goes to you Rashmi. Being a sincere follower of one tradition, without really knowing, practicing the other ones, does not give the right to judge the other ones. The honest thing to say would be …I do not know about the things you teach, it may be true in ways I cannot imagine, I’ll stick to my path, and may Brahman, God, Allah grant us wisdom so we can respect and tolerate each other.
Few people are witnesses of the higher realites, or maybe, there are many, just that they do not enter these debates because they know that ANY TRADITION IN HIS EXTERNAL FORM IS JUST A FACET of what it really represents, and thus limited.
The Vedas are limited, the Bible is limited, the Quran is limited.
I think discussing their various limits is only for those who really know them up to the last detail. I am glad that I am not such a person, so this task is not mine. And is it really necessary ?
Important is that we read among the lines. These texts, traditions talk to our soul in ways it is very hard to rationalize.
About Jesus travelling to India, I do not know if it’s true or not. For me, it has little importance because my christianity is not an exclusive “label” I wear. For me, Ramana Maharshi was a great christian, and Mother Theresa, a great yogi, and they both are great examples of what Man really is. (Man as human being, not as male)
PS. Now, I have realized while stating the above, I really said nothing.
As a christian, not by social circumstance or education, but through the special grace God has shown to me, and through the sometimes hard studies and trying personal experiences, I am certain, that there is a spiritual evoulution of human kind, that reincarnation is a fact, that Jesus was not just an avatar, but one who had to perform a very unique task, of great significance for us, although traditional christianity often fails to really make us comprehend that, that every spiritual person has still a lot to learn especially from the older traditions, like hinduism, and yoga, and their study makes christians better chirstians, that there will be a great shift in human history, as described in the apocalypse, not in our lifetimes, in fact after a few lives we yet have to live, and our life here is training and being tested by various tempters, greater and more powerful that we think, that these powers work through our very genes, that real freedom can be only a spiritual one, and yet so many things, that I have come to accept through comprehension, because they make sense (on a higher scale, one not immediatly accesible to many), or some what I have arrived upon in those lonely hours of meditation, through intuition. And these truths I came to know are not essentially in opposition to any of the basic principles of great traditions, but complement their peculiar details, light them through, and unite them into a glorious one.
The highest part in us will always recognize it’s real nature, and the truth, if we manage to let that happen.
Right, theres only one God and to all the different people he appears different so they can understand, love and worship him. Isnt that wonderful.
One should take a look at the yamas and niyamas and the ten basic rules of christanity there`s not that much of a difference.
I?m sure in other religions one will find something very similar.
Since to me religion means to connect, to be in relation with all that exists in this creation, we should all try to come together and see and respect the beauty in all religious practise.
Truth an d freedom only can be found beyond all this terms of Hinduism, Judaism, Christianism, Kapitalism, Communism … and so on.
Lars
[QUOTE=Pandara;14220]The mountain top is for all the same and it is just One. But the many paths (read deities, religion, spiritual practices) which leads to the summit, those are very different and diverse, especially at the foot of the mountain when the paths are far from each other. We all reach the summit through our own path, but the closer you get to the summit, the more your awareness grows that all the paths leads to the same summit and instead of being exclusive you become inclusive. Just my take on this, Pat. :)[/QUOTE]
Pandaraji, people just get stuck at the foot of the mountain.
Don’t you think God has caused problem by appearing different to us ?
God appears different to us because we identify ourselves as separate from God.
Who’s stopping God from being more than one or even Shunya ? People say God is formless, who’s stopping God from taking a form ?
All I can say is there’s not One or many or no God at all, there’s ONLY God.
“Ishavasyam Idham Sarvam”, all there is, is God. - Isha Upanishad
Thank you everyone.
[QUOTE=Hubert;14222]The clash here is not between various truth’s but between various people’s limited perception of the same thruth.
The truth is really one.
Anyone who thinks he has an exquisite knowledge of truth, while others being ignorants and victims of illusions and error, is also wrong. This goes to you Rashmi. Being a sincere follower of one tradition, without really knowing, practicing the other ones, does not give the right to judge the other ones. The honest thing to say would be …I do not know about the things you teach, it may be true in ways I cannot imagine, I’ll stick to my path, and may Brahman, God, Allah grant us wisdom so we can respect and tolerate each other.
Few people are witnesses of the higher realites, or maybe, there are many, just that they do not enter these debates because they know that ANY TRADITION IN HIS EXTERNAL FORM IS JUST A FACET of what it really represents, and thus limited.
The Vedas are limited, the Bible is limited, the Quran is limited.
I think discussing their various limits is only for those who really know them up to the last detail. I am glad that I am not such a person, so this task is not mine. And is it really necessary ?
Important is that we read among the lines. These texts, traditions talk to our soul in ways it is very hard to rationalize.
About Jesus travelling to India, I do not know if it’s true or not. For me, it has little importance because my christianity is not an exclusive “label” I wear. For me, Ramana Maharshi was a great christian, and Mother Theresa, a great yogi, and they both are great examples of what Man really is. (Man as human being, not as male)
PS. Now, I have realized while stating the above, I really said nothing.
As a christian, not by social circumstance or education, but through the special grace God has shown to me, and through the sometimes hard studies and trying personal experiences, I am certain, that there is a spiritual evoulution of human kind, that reincarnation is a fact, that Jesus was not just an avatar, but one who had to perform a very unique task, of great significance for us, although traditional christianity often fails to really make us comprehend that, that every spiritual person has still a lot to learn especially from the older traditions, like hinduism, and yoga, and their study makes christians better chirstians, that there will be a great shift in human history, as described in the apocalypse, not in our lifetimes, in fact after a few lives we yet have to live, and our life here is training and being tested by various tempters, greater and more powerful that we think, that these powers work through our very genes, that real freedom can be only a spiritual one, and yet so many things, that I have come to accept through comprehension, because they make sense (on a higher scale, one not immediatly accesible to many), or some what I have arrived upon in those lonely hours of meditation, through intuition. And these truths I came to know are not essentially in opposition to any of the basic principles of great traditions, but complement their peculiar details, light them through, and unite them into a glorious one.
The highest part in us will always recognize it’s real nature, and the truth, if we manage to let that happen.[/QUOTE]
You are saying about “various powerful tempters, who work through our very genes.”
This is quite interesting. Could you elaborate ?
Thanks.
I have browsed through Bhagavad Gita, chapter 10, Divine Glory.
A few quotes to show that there is only one God:
"Sri Khrishna :
I am the radiant sun.
I am the Atman which dwells in the heart of every creature.
I am the beginning, the life-span, and the end of all…
There is no limit of my Divine manifestations."
It basically says it all.
My teacher, Rudlof Steiner said something like the following:
Christ is the moral Sun.
The Gospel of John also quotes almost exactly some lines of the Vedas.
But saying “quotes” is misleading. This idea probably will help a lot of people to accept that some tuth is expressed in the Bible, too :), yet I really doubt that there have been real physical connection between Jesus and His disciples and India.
Spiritual connections explain more then well these similarities, in my opinion, and that does not require the physical presence of any Master or pupil in particular geopgraphic regions of the Earth.
Many ideas came to my mind, but I have little time, so I’ll just leave it at this.
[quote=oak333;14235]You are saying about “various powerful tempters, who work through our very genes.”
This is quite interesting. Could you elaborate ?
Thanks.[/quote]
No, because my answer was so long it timed out, so it could not be sent, and was wasted. So, you will have to wait until I regain my incentive.
In the Vedas, the supreme truth or God is described as ‘Anirvachaniya’. It means something that cannot be described by words, any description would only be one aspect.
So the absolute truth (God) can only be experienced.
Yes Hubert the Vedas themselves say they are limited.
Yoga and the Jesus Prayer
The Hesychast (the tranquil one) is an old Eastern Orthodox monastic order. They practised Jesus Prayer by continously praying "Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon me."
They prayed though by using breathing techniques, following the breathing until it reached the heart, when they repeated the Jesus Prayer by concentrating upon the heart.
But converging breath, concentration, and silent intonation at the heart area is pretty much a form of yoga meditation, at least as far as I know.
This is where language is leaving us. Yoga is just a word, Jesus is just a word, if seen objectively. Being seen subjectively is very different a matter, though.
By the way, the hesychast as a practicing form of a religious order, was created by someone. That person has arrived to the state of soul when he (I guess it was a he, but maybe I’m wrong) said those words for the first time, consciously out of desperation, trusting himself entirely to the divine will. In his case, his prayer was granted instantly, and he became later a founder of a monastic order. A wonderful example of spiritual growth. (There is no need to be really desperate, but few are capable of arriving to the peace and detachment necessary for that)
Making it a practice … well, it is probably useful but that depends on the honesty those words are pronounced with. What I see as a prerequiste for this prayer to really happen, is total desepration, lack of hope, and any helping circumstance. I guess that would be called real pratyahara, when the disciple leaves everything he/she has been helped by or has grown attached to. No body, no mind, no goals, juts being lost in total darkness, emptyness and silence.
The breathing part is a prerequiste, to calm the vital body and mind, thus making abstraction of it. It is shortsighted to think that physical or pranic practice alone can turn one realized, but it is also impossible to have such a practice. The ability to control these powers is only for they can be put aside. There is great room for error here, as greater control gives the possibility to use this control in selfish ways. Ever witnessed the cruelty of healthy, young people, who are ignorant because of their lack of experience ? They make use of their health, given to them at no cost, they take it as natural, and use every opportunity to mistreat it ? Yet youth and it’s exuberant vitality is a passing one. It does matter a lot what this vitality is spent on … selfish enjoyment, or benefiting the world. Good teachers would be essential … but apparently the world’s curse is not creating a paradisiac planet Earth.
Asanas are NOT just physical exercises.
They have biochemical, psychological, spiritual effects.
Scroll down to the section Asanas in the classic book Hatha Yoga Pradipika:
I know, but, apparently, many, do not.
But your post hid a gift … that linked page I am very fond of.